4 ms·

Show HN: Slingcode live-reloading web IDE to make, run, and share web apps P2P

77 points by chr15m 6y ago

zubairq 6y ago
So am I right in thinking that this is for browser only apps, as it doesn't include a server? At Yazz Pilot we made the ability to output apps as a HTML file, but to have the whole dev environment client side is pretty amazing!
- chr15m 6y ago
  Thank you for checking out the project. That's correct it's for browser only apps with no back end. Browsers are now capable of doing so much of what you want from an app. My guess is there is a large class of users for whom client side apps are good enough for the job they're doing. Some of the use-cases where Excel is used today for example, and video games too, which are often self contained. Clay Shirkey's "situated software" article explains these ideas very well. Even data storage and sync is possible fully client side using WebRTC peer-to-peer tech.
  - vertex-four 6y ago
    The "problem" with these systems is sharing changes - if I change the system you share with me for myself, it's really hard for someone to use those changes along with other changes. Integrating changes together involves handling merge conflicts in code we don't necessarily understand. I think separating the data the system operates on from a series of smaller systems is the key here.
    - chr15m 6y ago
      Yes, that is a problem. It is one which is solved by git and other version control software. If you are building something with an online editor like Slingcode and you get to the point where change management becomes an issue then it is probably time to switch to a more comprehensive development environment.
      - sitkack 6y ago
        Excellent work! I am happy for you, this is really cool. Take a look at posts, blogs and videos by Joe Armstrong, one of the inventors of Erlang. Some things that stand out are "immutable code" and globally accessible code. The other one is the research around CRDTs. https://dl.acm.org/action/doSearch?AllField=crdt https://dl.acm.org/action/doSearch?AllField=crdt
randtrain34 6y ago
Is there a github link for the source? I see it's under MIT License.
- yogthos 6y ago
  The github repo is here https://github.com/chr15m/slingcode https://github.com/chr15m/slingcode
serverQuestion 6y ago
I love all this P2P software being built, but it seems like if your peer to peer is just static html and friends. You are as much P2P as github pages.
- neutronicus 6y ago
  No, they use WebTorrent
blumomo 6y ago
That reminds me how simple it was to start programming with QBasic. The slingcode video on its website is well done, explains how it works why it’s great in a few minutes. Love it.
steve76 6y ago
When The US Marines in the Pacific requested arms, everyone was thinking tanks, airplanes and ships. Instead the request for hypersonic missiles, laser cannons, and --> cyberweapons <-- surprised everyone. https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 For me, security is assigned to someone else if I can just use the browser. I take it seriously as it can kill us all. It would be nice to build apps which work without any data bill. Old phones have value. I thought of ultrasonic audio, or using the camera so I don't need to prompt the user to turn on a wifi hotspot, for true peer to peer without any internet, like a walkie talkie. When I talk to anyone serious, they get a smirk and say, "Congrats. You just invented 5G". There are battery concerns, and the hardware is always going to win over a browser device to device beaming library abstraction layer. No server, first class offline, and device to device with no internet are all very different. P2P concepts tends to spread murky across all three. No server means someone else runs a backing service for you, a websocket, or an interval build to a CDN, or in this case seeding a torrent. First class offline means your user sees the same thing if there's no network. When network is available, something like app sync or background sync updates everything. Those two really don't matter anymore because mobile carriers. When are you really without a data signal? I found better progress with just building apps for people. React's useState and useEffect to a websocket with runtime typechecks and local storage in a bundle of about 100 kb. No server either and is a joy to program.
abrookewood 6y ago
The author also added this blog post explaining the reasoning behind it. Worth a read: https://mccormick.cx/news/entries/slingcode-personal-computing-platform https://mccormick.cx/news/entries/slingcode-personal-computi...

77 points by chr15m 6y ago

So am I right in thinking that this is for browser only apps, as it doesn't include a server? At Yazz Pilot we made the ability to output apps as a HTML file, but to have the whole dev environment client side is pretty amazing!

chr15m 6y ago
Thank you for checking out the project. That's correct it's for browser only apps with no back end. Browsers are now capable of doing so much of what you want from an app. My guess is there is a large class of users for whom client side apps are good enough for the job they're doing. Some of the use-cases where Excel is used today for example, and video games too, which are often self contained. Clay Shirkey's "situated software" article explains these ideas very well. Even data storage and sync is possible fully client side using WebRTC peer-to-peer tech.
- vertex-four 6y ago
  The "problem" with these systems is sharing changes - if I change the system you share with me for myself, it's really hard for someone to use those changes along with other changes. Integrating changes together involves handling merge conflicts in code we don't necessarily understand. I think separating the data the system operates on from a series of smaller systems is the key here.
  - chr15m 6y ago
    Yes, that is a problem. It is one which is solved by git and other version control software. If you are building something with an online editor like Slingcode and you get to the point where change management becomes an issue then it is probably time to switch to a more comprehensive development environment.
    - sitkack 6y ago
      Excellent work! I am happy for you, this is really cool. Take a look at posts, blogs and videos by Joe Armstrong, one of the inventors of Erlang. Some things that stand out are "immutable code" and globally accessible code. The other one is the research around CRDTs. https://dl.acm.org/action/doSearch?AllField=crdt https://dl.acm.org/action/doSearch?AllField=crdt

randtrain34 6y ago

Is there a github link for the source? I see it's under MIT License.

yogthos 6y ago
The github repo is here https://github.com/chr15m/slingcode https://github.com/chr15m/slingcode

serverQuestion 6y ago

I love all this P2P software being built, but it seems like if your peer to peer is just static html and friends. You are as much P2P as github pages.

neutronicus 6y ago
No, they use WebTorrent

blumomo 6y ago

That reminds me how simple it was to start programming with QBasic. The slingcode video on its website is well done, explains how it works why it’s great in a few minutes. Love it.

steve76 6y ago

When The US Marines in the Pacific requested arms, everyone was thinking tanks, airplanes and ships. Instead the request for hypersonic missiles, laser cannons, and --> cyberweapons <-- surprised everyone. https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 For me, security is assigned to someone else if I can just use the browser. I take it seriously as it can kill us all. It would be nice to build apps which work without any data bill. Old phones have value. I thought of ultrasonic audio, or using the camera so I don't need to prompt the user to turn on a wifi hotspot, for true peer to peer without any internet, like a walkie talkie. When I talk to anyone serious, they get a smirk and say, "Congrats. You just invented 5G". There are battery concerns, and the hardware is always going to win over a browser device to device beaming library abstraction layer. No server, first class offline, and device to device with no internet are all very different. P2P concepts tends to spread murky across all three. No server means someone else runs a backing service for you, a websocket, or an interval build to a CDN, or in this case seeding a torrent. First class offline means your user sees the same thing if there's no network. When network is available, something like app sync or background sync updates everything. Those two really don't matter anymore because mobile carriers. When are you really without a data signal? I found better progress with just building apps for people. React's useState and useEffect to a websocket with runtime typechecks and local storage in a bundle of about 100 kb. No server either and is a joy to program.

abrookewood 6y ago

The author also added this blog post explaining the reasoning behind it. Worth a read: https://mccormick.cx/news/entries/slingcode-personal-computing-platform https://mccormick.cx/news/entries/slingcode-personal-computi...