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I will repost my quick immigration quiz, for Americans/others who may be unfamiliar with what the typical visa process is for an immigrant: 1. An international
by arugulum 6y ago
I will repost my quick immigration quiz, for Americans/others who may be unfamiliar with what the typical visa process is for an immigrant:
1. An international student graduates at the top of their class in Stanford in CS, and goes to work for a tech company. What visa do they use?
The correct answer is F1 (OPT) for one year, with OPT STEM extension for 2 extra years, while they apply for H-1B. If they weren't a STEM major, regardless of their actual role, they have a single year to apply for H-1B, with a ~30% chance of success by lottery, before being asked to leave the country. Regardless of their qualifications.
2. Instead of staying in tech for their career, they work for a year in a tech firm, then go to MIT for CS grad school. They perform excellently, having many publications under their name, doing several industry internships at Microsoft/Google labs. They then get accepted to a tenure track Assistant Professor position at Columbia. What visa do they apply for?
Still H-1B.
My understanding is that the latest executive order includes several exemptions, but I still want to emphasize how widely used and important H-1B is as an channel for introducing talent into the US.
- throw345hn 6y agoIf they have a number or publications as you say, they may be eligible to apply for O-1 visa. I know a couple of people who received it and (in my opinion) got it for less than what you may think of as good technical merit
- arugulum 6y agoMy understanding is that O-1 visas require very specifically tailored applications to qualify. (I too have heard stories of how moderate achievements are twisted/massaged to be pitched for the O-1 application, and worked.) I know several brilliant new/junior professors who are nevertheless on the H-1B track. My point is that H-1B is far and beyond the default and most common visa for introducing foreign working talent, and others like O-1 and EB-1 are the rare, rare exceptions.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> My point is that H-1B is far and beyond the default and most common visa for introducing foreign working talent, and others like O-1 and EB-1 are the rare, rare exceptions. EB-1 is an immigrant visa and, aside from being smaller in number than H-1B, was already halted along with immigration generally on April 22, and this order extends the immigration halt through December as well as adding a few nobimmigrant visa categories to the halt.
- vaidhy 6y agoEB1 is not a visa, but a category to get green card. It stands for employment based, priority 1. Irrespective of how your green card application will be prioritized, you still need a visa. Typically, people under L1A (intra company managers), O1 visa get to apply for green card under EB1 and rest under EB2 or EB3.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> EB1 is not a visa, but a category to get green card. It stands for employment based, priority 1. No, it stands for “Employment Based, First Preference”, and you can go tell U.S. Citizenship.and Immigration Services that it's not a visa, because they think it is. https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-first-preference-eb-1 https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-worker... Employment-Based Immigration: First Preference EB-1 […] You may be eligible for an employment-based, first-preference visa if you are an alien of extraordinary ability, are an outstanding professor or researcher, or are a certain multinational executive or manager.
- AkshatM 6y agoOnly ~20,000 O-1 visas were issued in 2019, compared to 190,000 H1B visas. The reason for this is because the O-1 visa is significantly harder to qualify for. The same people who would expect would be in the running for an O-1 (master's and postdoctoral students) apply for an H1B, in large part because the bar for the O-1 is just that high.
- throw345hn 6y agoIt’s less than what you may think it is. It also highly depends on your lawyer, I know a couple of people who you may think may not qualify but their lawyers ended up writing a lot of stuff (not made up obviously, just lawyer like language that drags on) and they ended up getting the visa. Out of those one of them got an rfe but they still pursued on and qualified. EB1 on the other hand is far harder.
- olcor 6y agoThinking about it as an immigrant, just the same way as the H1B: why punt on it if it is this variable? And why even depend of this? The entire problem is that immigration isn't working as it is supposed to. If even this can be gamed, what's the point?
- throw345hn 6y agoAgree with you completely. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to come up with a Canadian or UK like points based system.
- muzaffarpur 6y agoBecause it is a feature, not a bug.
- muzaffarpur 6y agoMasters don't apply for EB1. Many PhDs also can't. FAANG hire everyone for S/W engineer. Most of them apply EB2. EB1 have to be exceptional PhD.
- mayank 6y ago> If they have a number or publications as you say, they may be eligible to apply for O-1 visa. This is only if you have a research-based job. If you graduate with a PhD and get a job on the software engineering ladder, you're SOL.
- ibejoeb 6y agoI suppose you're getting downvoted because people don't like the answer. O-1 visas are absolutely attainable. Look at the evidentiary criteria for O-1A visas: "Authorship of scholarly articles in professional journals or other major media," "Published material in professional or major trade publications or major media," "Authorship of scholarly articles in professional journals," and "Original scientific, scholarly, or business-related contributions" are among the qualifiers, and are natural parts of a career in these fields. In fact, enumerating the criteria here is useless, because almost all of them pertain directly.
- UncleMeat 6y agoO-1 is hard as heck. Not only do you need a very strong publication record but you also need a history of doing things like serving on program committees for conferences.
- dilyevsky 6y agoFalse. All you need is to prove your “exceptional qualifications” and that you would improve the country by working here. There are a number of ways to do that and conferences is just one possible way
- UncleMeat 6y agoI'm a hiring manager at a FAANG company and exclusively hire PhDs. The very first question that I try to answer when looking at a candidate who can't get OPT is "can this person feasible get an O-1". Then I bring a resume to the lawyers. I have a lot of experience evaluating whether somebody can feasibly get an O-1. Just having a publication record is not enough. It needs to be a strong record and you need to have strong ties to the academic community through things like program committees. I've sadly had to turn down a lot of people who would easily improve the country by working here because their publication record isn't enough to get an O-1 visa. I know faculty at MIT who aren't on O-1s. It's not easy.
- dilyevsky 6y agoI know three people who got it and one of them I wrote reference for. If my recommendation (among other things ofc) is sufficient I assume it’s not impossible =) Also you need good lawyer as with many such things
- saisundar 6y agoWell O 1 visas not dual intent though. In order to actually obtain permanent residency, you would still need to move to a h1b. There are several valid reasons to seek permanent residency - which I don't want to dive into here or moralize. Just wanted to call out again that O 1 is a dead end.
- throw345hn 6y agoGood point about dual intent. One thing though I think it’s bit easier to renew and you can also keep renewing it without any time limit.
- baby 6y agoNot true. To my knowledge no visa is dual intent in theory but it never end up mattering in practice.
- arugulum 6y agoH-1B is dual intent.
- FiloSottile 6y agoH1-B and L-1 are dual intent and it matters to travel with a pending Adjustment of Status.
- baby 6y agoThanks for the correction. But again it rarely matters in practice.
- FiloSottile 6y agoIn practice it means that if you file for a green card while on O-1 status there will be 4-8 months during which you absolutely can't travel.
- 6y ago
- dragonwriter 6y ago> I will repost my quick immigration quiz If it's an “immigration” quiz, why are all the scenarios about nonimmigrant status?
- arugulum 6y agoApologies for misusing the term "immigration" to refer to the broader topic, but in any case H-1B is a dual-intent visa and is still the primary work-related route on the way to applying for a green card.
- dragonwriter 6y agoI suppose the big picture here is that pretending that the H-1B suspension is the big news for immigration kind of misses the point because: (1) All actual immigration entry was already suspended since April 22. (2) The present order adding suspension of some nonimmigrant visas through the end of the year also extended the general immigration halt to the end of the year.
- vaidhy 6y agoYou are mistaken. Only thing suspended for new green card applications. You apply for green card after you are in the country on one of these visas. A lot of immigration happens after people are in the US under H1B or L1 visa, not at the counsulates.
- pandaman 6y agoYou are actually mistaken yourself. Green cards do not depend on non-immigrant status, being an immigrant visa. Thousands of people (at least 50000 DVs + CP EB and FB) get these visas, arrive to the country for the first time and become LPR without using any non-immigrant visa.
- vaidhy 6y agoYou are right.. I missed the diversity quota completely. It is not available for some and open for others. I had friends from West Indies (Trinidad and Tobago) come with green card.
- raincom 6y agoThere is no quota limit for H1-Bs applied by non-profits such as MIT, or some state college in Florida.
- akhilcacharya 6y agoWhat’s the problem with graduating from a state college in Florida? Can they not produce valuable research or innovate for this country?
- PopeDotNinja 6y agoComment is just saying that MIT and any Florida state school are all nonprofits.
- mav3rick 6y agoHere's that projecting your own biases on a random thread again.
- KorematsuFred 6y agoNote that these are separate class of H1Bs. If Florida state hires you on cap exempt H1B you can probably move to University of California Irvine but not Google Inc. Also, if I remember correctly not all non profits can do this, but only certain category of nonprofits hiring for specific roles. Otherwise I could start a non-profit software foundation, bring in workers and then write lots of free and open source software.
- baby 6y agoYou can get an O1 easily with your tenure track and publications. I know a bunch of people who have obtained an O1 with none of that. There are more interesting stuff about US visas IMO. With a number of them, and if you come from countries like Poland, after a year in the US you have to stay away for 2 years before coming back to the US. With a number of visa your spouse also can’t work and is reduced to a stay-at home. Internships that want to be converted to FTE needs to try the H1B lottery also.
- mav3rick 6y agoLOL O1 visa is still not easy. Even after 6 years of PhD.
- baby 6y agoI know people who have got an O1 from not much :)
- arugulum 6y ago> Internships that want to be converted to FTE needs to try the H1B lottery also. This is not true in general, assuming you're a student (since that's the usual situation for an internship). You can rely on CPT during school (with some bureaucracy), or OPT if you run out of CPT time.
- baby 6y agothat's if you got a master degree in the US. I was a student who came to the US to do an internship (on a J1) and had to get a H1B after my internship.
- KorematsuFred 6y agoAlso while most people around the world can transition to green card from H1B, there is limit of 7% per national origin. Since India and China are large countries, their citizens often have to wait longer than anyone else in the national origin queue. This has resulted into huge queue for Indian citizens. Any Indian who applies for employment based green card has to wait around 150 years to get his/her green card. Until then they have to keep renewing their H1B and subject to constantly changing laws. It is estimated that there are around 300K-500K Indians stuck in the backlog many of whom are in country for more than 10 years. A lot of H1B rule changes by current admin are done specifically to target these individuals.
- eganist 6y ago> 2. Instead of staying in tech for their career, they work for a year in a tech firm, then go to MIT for CS grad school. They perform excellently, having many publications under their name, doing several industry internships at Microsoft/Google labs. They then get accepted to a tenure track Assistant Professor position at Columbia. What visa do they apply for? > Still H-1B Wait, really? I would think EB-1 would be the better route to take via the "Outstanding professors and researchers" qualifications, no? https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-first-preference-eb-1 https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/permanent-worker...
- tonmoy 6y agoApart from sibling comments’ points, someone from MIT with multiple publications under their name can apply for NIW as well.
- api 6y agoThe "American century" was largely built on the USA being the recipient of brain drain from the rest of the world. Brain drain from Germany alone, even just before the war, helped propel America to the top of the global game in science and technology. Germany was once the world's great physics powerhouse, and it passed that baton to the USA in part because many of those physicists were Jewish. Actively trying to keep talent out to appease idiots who believe in the type of ideology all those great physicists were running away from is national suicide. BTW, the rise of Xi Jinpeng is an incredible opportunity to absorb top talent from China, and we are squandering it by making ourselves inhospitable. Same goes for top talent who doesn't feel like swinging on Vladimir Putin's nuts.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago> Same goes for top talent who doesn't feel like swinging on Vladimir Putin's nuts. Putin's been around for a long time, mon ami. Those that didn't like him and could leave already have. There is a reason there are a lot of very expensive houses (that stay empty) in Vancouver.
- failuser 6y agoAlmost everyone I know have been talking about leaving and as time goes on the fraction that actually left is increasing. Changing the constitution would most likely accelerate the process.
- gadders 6y ago3. IBM wants to import 400 java developers from India to lower their wage bill. What visa do they use?
- theshadowmonkey 6y agoAnd still need to pay market wage set by DOL for their experience.
- gadders 6y ago..which is much less than the open market, I bet.
- theshadowmonkey 6y agoIn most markets, yes. But, you're actually competing for talent in markets like Bay Area or Seattle. So, if you're worthy enough, you'll have employers fighting for you.