4 ms·

"As fast" on specific curated use cases. Show me an Apple chip that beats any laptop on 7zip.

by jl6 6y ago

r00fus 6y ago
Is this a joke, what kind of usage benchmark is 7zipping large numbers of files?
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  I think the point is that it won’t be as fast in applications that Apple didn’t anticipate.
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  I believe it is what the poster you are replying to would call "a specific curated use case." (Semi-seriously, I don't know anyone who uses a Unix(-like) system who uses 7zip, although I'm sure they're out there. For the record, I just unzipped a 120M archive on both my 2020 Core i7 MacBook Air and my 2018 (last-gen) iPad Pro and as near as I can tell the iPad was faster actually extracting the files, but had an extra second or so of overhead from the UI.)
  - ac29 6y ago
    > I don't know anyone who uses a Unix(-like) system who uses 7zip 7zip is an implementation of LZMA, like xz. So, different names and file format details, but essentially the same algorithm.
    - user5994461 6y ago
      Correct. 7zip is a LZMA compressor. The common equivalent command line tool on Linux is xz. Linux distributions have been using xz compression for all packages (replacing gzip). So to the question of how relevant is xz/lzma/7zip performance to day to day task, is it's a lot relevant. The successor will probably be zstd in the coming years. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fedora-31-Zstd-RPM-Change https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fedora-3...
  - rjsw 6y ago
    You can find a 7zip for UNIX here [1]. [1] http://p7zip.sourceforge.net/ http://p7zip.sourceforge.net/
- ardy42 6y ago
  >>> They already have a mobile chip that is as fast as an active-thermally cooled notebook chip. >> "As fast" on specific curated use cases. Show me an Apple chip that beats any laptop on 7zip. > Is this a joke, what kind of usage benchmark is 7zipping large numbers of files? A benchmark that Apple is unlikely to have implemented specific optimizations for, which therefore is a better test of the general purpose performance of the chip. The situation being claimed here is sort of like if someone cited a DES benchmark to claim that Deep Crack's DES cracking chips (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker) were faster than a contemporary 1998 Pentium II.
  - r00fus 6y ago
    A benchmark that probably relies as much on disk access speeds as CPU?
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > A benchmark that probably relies as much on disk access speeds as CPU? If true, that's just a nitpick that doesn't affect the overall point of the GGGP, though.
    - user5994461 6y ago
      Nope, 7zip is using LZMA algorithm for compression, which is around a few MB/s on the fastest CPU. It's heavily CPU bound. edit: Just tried compressing a large file, ultra setting on my desktop i5 CPU, it's running at 3 MB/s on 1 core.
      - r00fus 6y ago
        One large file could be CPU bound, many small files (which is partly why you zip/jar things up) is disk bound.
      - dwaite 6y ago
        Apple ships a framework for doing lzma and other compression algorithms. I doubt they will be taken by surprise
tw04 6y ago
Given that Amazon was able to get there, what makes you think Apple can't? I would struggle to believe that Annapurna Labs has any significant advantage over PA Semi given the track record PA has had since joining Apple, and the fact they had nearly a decade head-start. https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-graviton2-arm-against-intel-and-amd https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-grav...
- fock 6y ago
  not sure, what they are measuring though - random Xeon from spec.org: https://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2017q3/cpu2006-20170905-49241.html https://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2017q3/cpu2006-20170... ; at most 30% higher frequency, yet twice as fast. Well...
tshaddox 6y ago
I don’t know about 7zip specifically, but the iPad Pro seems to beat even some MacBook Pros on some benchmarks. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/12/ipad-pro-vs-macbook-air-vs-macbook-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/12/ipad-pro-vs-macbook-air...
43920 6y ago
How about JavaScript execution? https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449
robocat 6y ago
Actually the zip algorithm is a perfect candidate for dedicated silicon of a dedicated instruction. I read about a chip that had that feature yesterday but I can’t find the link unfortunately.
- Sleaker 6y ago
  this is something that's looking at getting moved to storage controllers on motherboards, ex: PS5/Xbox consoles so that compressed data can be streamed directly to the GPU. Hopefully we'll start to get this type of tech after it's been proven in the console space.
- fomine3 6y ago
  Intel QAT supports gzip compression.

"As fast" on specific curated use cases. Show me an Apple chip that beats any laptop on 7zip.

by jl6 6y ago

"As fast" on specific curated use cases. Show me an Apple chip that beats any laptop on 7zip.

r00fus 6y ago

Is this a joke, what kind of usage benchmark is 7zipping large numbers of files?

AlexandrB 6y ago
I think the point is that it won’t be as fast in applications that Apple didn’t anticipate.
chipotle_coyote 6y ago
I believe it is what the poster you are replying to would call "a specific curated use case." (Semi-seriously, I don't know anyone who uses a Unix(-like) system who uses 7zip, although I'm sure they're out there. For the record, I just unzipped a 120M archive on both my 2020 Core i7 MacBook Air and my 2018 (last-gen) iPad Pro and as near as I can tell the iPad was faster actually extracting the files, but had an extra second or so of overhead from the UI.)
- ac29 6y ago
  > I don't know anyone who uses a Unix(-like) system who uses 7zip 7zip is an implementation of LZMA, like xz. So, different names and file format details, but essentially the same algorithm.
  - user5994461 6y ago
    Correct. 7zip is a LZMA compressor. The common equivalent command line tool on Linux is xz. Linux distributions have been using xz compression for all packages (replacing gzip). So to the question of how relevant is xz/lzma/7zip performance to day to day task, is it's a lot relevant. The successor will probably be zstd in the coming years. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fedora-31-Zstd-RPM-Change https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Fedora-3...
- rjsw 6y ago
  You can find a 7zip for UNIX here [1]. [1] http://p7zip.sourceforge.net/ http://p7zip.sourceforge.net/
ardy42 6y ago
>>> They already have a mobile chip that is as fast as an active-thermally cooled notebook chip. >> "As fast" on specific curated use cases. Show me an Apple chip that beats any laptop on 7zip. > Is this a joke, what kind of usage benchmark is 7zipping large numbers of files? A benchmark that Apple is unlikely to have implemented specific optimizations for, which therefore is a better test of the general purpose performance of the chip. The situation being claimed here is sort of like if someone cited a DES benchmark to claim that Deep Crack's DES cracking chips (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker) were faster than a contemporary 1998 Pentium II.
- r00fus 6y ago
  A benchmark that probably relies as much on disk access speeds as CPU?
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > A benchmark that probably relies as much on disk access speeds as CPU? If true, that's just a nitpick that doesn't affect the overall point of the GGGP, though.
  - user5994461 6y ago
    Nope, 7zip is using LZMA algorithm for compression, which is around a few MB/s on the fastest CPU. It's heavily CPU bound. edit: Just tried compressing a large file, ultra setting on my desktop i5 CPU, it's running at 3 MB/s on 1 core.
    - r00fus 6y ago
      One large file could be CPU bound, many small files (which is partly why you zip/jar things up) is disk bound.
    - dwaite 6y ago
      Apple ships a framework for doing lzma and other compression algorithms. I doubt they will be taken by surprise

tw04 6y ago

Given that Amazon was able to get there, what makes you think Apple can't? I would struggle to believe that Annapurna Labs has any significant advantage over PA Semi given the track record PA has had since joining Apple, and the fact they had nearly a decade head-start. https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-graviton2-arm-against-intel-and-amd https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-grav...

fock 6y ago
not sure, what they are measuring though - random Xeon from spec.org: https://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2017q3/cpu2006-20170905-49241.html https://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2017q3/cpu2006-20170... ; at most 30% higher frequency, yet twice as fast. Well...

tshaddox 6y ago

I don’t know about 7zip specifically, but the iPad Pro seems to beat even some MacBook Pros on some benchmarks. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/12/ipad-pro-vs-macbook-air-vs-macbook-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/12/ipad-pro-vs-macbook-air...

43920 6y ago

How about JavaScript execution? https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1043277162676072449

robocat 6y ago

Actually the zip algorithm is a perfect candidate for dedicated silicon of a dedicated instruction. I read about a chip that had that feature yesterday but I can’t find the link unfortunately.

Sleaker 6y ago
this is something that's looking at getting moved to storage controllers on motherboards, ex: PS5/Xbox consoles so that compressed data can be streamed directly to the GPU. Hopefully we'll start to get this type of tech after it's been proven in the console space.
fomine3 6y ago
Intel QAT supports gzip compression.