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I don't really get reddit's efforts to clean their site. They sometimes come up with measures like this, while routinely ignoring the development of horrible c

• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• unethical_ban 6y ago
  If you let a bad community be bad in their dark corner, they won't spread as easily to the rest of the site. You can easily see that the accounts are toxic by seeing that they participate in garbage communities. And it's a great honeypot for authorities, be it for political astroturfing and nationstate stuff, or for borderline-illegal content.
  • 0-_-0 6y ago
    >If you let a bad community be bad in their dark corner, they won't spread as easily to the rest of the site. I suspect this is the reason. I observed the opposite, a certain type of content disappearing after a separate comunity was created for it.
• buboard 6y ago
  Because competitors exist
  • hombre_fatal 6y ago
    Not really. And forcing all of your unwanted/toxic subreddits to Reddit clones only damns them from ever gaining traction. Take a look: https://voat.co/ https://voat.co/
    • buboard 6y ago
      These sites rely on network effect, which become prominent after a certain threshold of users join the site. If they reach critical mass, they will suck in the rest of the extreme-right, then the republicans then slowly everyone, because people like controversy and will seek to go where they can have it. Reddit is clearly a leftwing site now in ways that it wasnt when it started (when libertarian was the dominant ethos). All their "common word" reddits, such as news, politics, technology science are purely leftist echo chambers by now. The few rightwing corners left are already isolated and ready to make the move. In fact they may even decide they should jump ship. What better time for /r/t_d to go somewhere else than now, when people's interest is intensely focused in elections and they can easily rally all their users to follow them. Wherever they go, more people of other persuasions will follow, because people love telling other people that they are wrong on the internet. The question is if those other competitors can stand the traffic and whether they give the features to moderators that reddit does.
      • sigotirandolas 6y ago
        T_d already split into an independent website four months ago.
    • Scoundreller 6y ago
      Subreddits can be unwanted by Reddit, but otherwise non-toxic.
      • brirec 6y ago
        This is correct, but the toxic, racist, alt-right, pro-fascism posts covering the front pages of sites like voat and ruqqus make me and many others wholly uninterested in these sites. If someone wants to provide an alternative to reddit but they don’t want to moderate/censor content that makes people uncomfortable, Reddit becomes the lesser evil.
• ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  The missing component of your thought process is who, exactly, deems subreddits not worthy of existence. Many people view pornography as an extremely damaging problem and addiction, would you want all 18+ subreddits removes because somebody “can’t think of a single honest reason for them existing”?
  • kace91 6y ago
    > The missing component of your thought process is who, exactly, deems subreddits not worthy of existence. The same people that deems them worth quarantining, presumably. We could have a debate of the benefits and drawbacks of moderation, but by the time you have quarantines in place, the ship of not considering yourself a moderator has long sailed, which is why it doesn't make sense for me as a measure.
  • rtsil 6y ago
    > who, exactly, deems subreddits not worthy of existence. That would be the company which owns reddit, through the admins. Is it fair? No, it isn't, but reddit has no requirement to be fair (although it would be nice if it was).
  • JohnBooty 6y ago
    Ten years ago I would have said, "No censorship. Turn on the firehose of information, and let me choose what's 'acceptable' and what's not." No more. That presumes some sort of equal playing field and a meritocracy of ideas. That's clearly not the case. The reality is that good-faith content takes more effort than bad-faith content. The 2016 US Election in particular showed us what happens when a platform takes a "hands off" approach - platforms become absolutely saturated with false, hateful information... much of it produced by large and even state-level organizations. It's not just evident when it comes to political content. Craigslist. Amazon. Etc. None of these platforms work with a completely laissez-faire approach on behalf of the platform owners. To think otherwise is utterly naive. Platforms need to curate. There's no other way. Yes, this means we will need to place trust in those platforms and monitor their curation. Platforms will, in turn, have an obligation to be transparent w.r.t. how they curate.
• henriquez 6y ago
  I think it was set up (or at least supported for this long) mainly due to thedonald subreddit. The admins were too weak-willed to outright ban that subreddit and deal with the PR and political fallout, but they wanted to prevent those posts from filtering up to the main site. Now that all the Trump people have left reddit I would guess that the concept of “quarantine” is no longer needed and goes away soon, in favor of simply banning subreddits. But we can all rest easy knowing that we can still watch people die or all sorts of weird porn - reddit has really cleaned up their act.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• MisterTea 6y ago
  > Once you've deemed a community so harmful that you don't want people accidentally stumbling into it, why go out of your way to allow it to exist behind a curtain, instead of just outright banning it (unless you want to support it discreetly). Perhaps this is a way to sidestep claims of censorship. Deleting subs can embolden some community themes and messages by allowing them to play victim of censorship and bolster claims of conspiracy via attacks from left/right/government/lizard people. So let them carry on while alerting people of what lies ahead.
  • stingraycharles 6y ago
    This is most definitely the case. The outrage inside Reddit is massive when there are signs of censorship, even if it’s just a very vocal minority: they set the tone. Keeping this group of people happy, while at the same time trying to maintain a somewhat “clean” site, is a delicate balancing act. I am certain that quarantined subreddits is a result of this.
  • TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    It also keeps people from flooding into the rest of Reddit. When /r/fatpeoplehate was banned, their users flooded and spammed most other subreddits.
    • slg 6y ago
      It is naive to think these bad users currently stay confined to their hateful communities. They use the rest of the site too. There is even an argument to be made that the rest of the site could be improved by banning these hateful communities, decreasing the value these users get from the site, and thereby decreasing the likelihood that these users will continue to use the rest of Reddit.
      • fatbird 6y ago
        The sibling comment to yours links to the study of users from /r/fatpeoplehate and what happened to them. Short version: most of them stayed, and behaved better in better moderated subreddits. The implied conclusion is that a very significant part of noxious community behaviour is situational.
• MattGaiser 6y ago
  Reddit is an anonymous website, in a unique way that Facebook, Twitter, and even Hacker News (simply because of the small community) are not. A lot of its success is built on content which is not as acceptable as one might desire. See what happened to Tumblr when they cracked down.
  • salawat 6y ago
    Reddit isn't even remotely anonymous. Pseudonymous at best. Anonymous forums are completely incompatible with user identity centric moderation mechanisms (Karma, Gold, rep etc...) Once you assign usernames and attach any type of value counter to an account, you've effectively dumped true anonymity out the window due to essentially creating a pseudonymic marketplace. People may think "How pseudonymous do you need to be?" In today's world? Very. Especially given the propensity for deplatforming and reputation based social warfare.
    • MattGaiser 6y ago
      Anonymous relative to Facebook and all the other social media sites. Sure, having user accounts is not completely anonymous, but it is good enough for 99% of people.
      • Spivak 6y ago
        Not having a real name policy isn't the same as being anonymous. Back in the day my irc nick and my WoW username were far more well known than I, the human, will ever be.
        • jjk166 6y ago
          You can make a new reddit account in 20 seconds if you don't want people to tie the comment you're about to make to your main account which is already a step removed from you. If you want Throwaway8675309 to develop a reputation, that's an option you have, not a requirement.
• cperciva 6y ago
  I think quarantined subreddits play the same role as "NSFW" tagging on posts: They're not banned, but it improves the user experience to not see them by accident.
  • Spivak 6y ago
    Yeah, but it's always the hate subreddits that make the headlines when they're quarantined.
• Scoundreller 6y ago
  There is a marijuana related subreddit that is geo-banned from Canadian IPs. Reddit just says “This content has been restricted in your country in response to a legal request. Geoblocked in Canada due to General legal request” Is there any way to push Reddit to disclose who sent the request? I’d love to followup with that agency, but we have a lot of police services in Canada, if it was one.
  • MattGaiser 6y ago
    From Canadian IPs? It is legal here now, so that is odd.
    • Scoundreller 6y ago
      Only legal if you buy it through the state-approved sellers or grow your own. Though the subreddit (was forced) to enact a “no sourcing” rule already in the past.
  • kps 6y ago
    You seem to have forgotten to name the subreddit. Reddit stopped copying Lumen (Chilling Effects) around 5 years ago.
    • Scoundreller 6y ago
      It’s http://old.reddit.com/r/canadianmoms http://old.reddit.com/r/canadianmoms (NSFW I guess, but not porn)
      • kps 6y ago
        Thanks, you're right — can access from the US, can't from Canada, with no explanation.
• gotoeleven 6y ago
  I think they just want to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak, like everyone else. For some people free speech is like riding the train: when you reach your stop, you get off.
• numpad0 6y ago
  Probably they profit from horrible communities and lose on some, and there are no clear distinction between the two, so they started to quarantine less profitable ones to stigmatize before banning them. They’re profiting off anger so “old” ones being angry has no downsides.
  • haunter 6y ago
    >Probably they profit from horrible communities There are no ads in quarantined subs and you can't buy any reddit awards to gift to others
    • WalterSear 6y ago
      Still drives traffic to the rest of the site.
    • numpad0 6y ago
      I mean T_D pays and WPD takes, and if T_D is not quarantined but WPD is, it seem to almost makes sense WPD goes but T_D stays
• klodolph 6y ago
  My take on quarantined subreddits is that it’s just a tool to remove certain communities from the mobile app so they don’t get in trouble with Apple / Google (mostly Apple, I’m sure).
  • Spivak 6y ago
    And also how to deal with communities that should absolutely not be spilling over into the rest of Reddit. Reddit, I think rightfully, quarantines a lot of ED related subreddits.
    • the-dude 6y ago
      What does ED stand for?
      • klodolph 6y ago
        Eating disorder, I’m sure. There are pro-eating disorder forums around on the internet just like there are pro-suicide forums.
      • lazyasciiart 6y ago
        eating disorder
      • dredmorbius 6y ago
        Eating disorder, as noted. "Pro-Ana" and "thinspiration are terms that appear, as examples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-ana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-ana Several such subreddits are (IMO rightfully) banned or quarantined.
  • tenebrisalietum 6y ago
    I think there's something to this, because on at least the iOS app, a quarantined subreddit basically looks like it doesn't exist at all, on the phone app.
  • koheripbal 6y ago
    ...and also how to avoid the media talking about it.
• goodluckchuck 6y ago
  > They even came up with the concept of quarantined subreddits. I honestly can't think of a single honest reason for them existing. Once you've deemed a community so harmful that you don't want people accidentally stumbling into it, why go out of your way to allow it to exist behind a curtain, instead of just outright banning it (unless you want to support it discreetly). Reddit came up with quarantining specifically to suppress /r/The_Donald. It had nothing to do with cleaning up the site and everything to do with advancing a political agenda. Now they're just stuck with a pretense and a set of rules that were never intended to be enforced fairly, and a user-base that (quite rightly) sees the rules as being arbitrarily enforced.
• downerending 6y ago
  My impression is the reason is that there really isn't widespread agreement on the harmfulness of such communities, so they're sort of trying to split the middle. And perhaps also to advocate for seeing them as awful, per corporate sentiment. The principal example that comes to mind is TD, which seems more obnoxious and tasteless than some sort of evil. Subs that truly are beyond the pale by wide consensus seem to get dropped immediately and without objection. As to not wanting to win, well, yes, dropping everything controversial means losing a lot of page-hits, and as a business, they're likely wary.
• throwaway_USD 6y ago
  >I don't really get reddit's efforts to clean their site. You don't get why a online forum might have an interest in ensuring every other post isn't a dick pic? If you can understand that, maybe you don't, then you DO understand their interest in moderating their own website whether or not you agree with their moderation standards in practice. A dick pic may be obvious to you...but so long as the picture depicts someone >18yo then it is legal and free speech. >They sometimes come up with measures like this, while routinely ignoring the development of horrible communities that they're aware of... Again isn't it their right to determine what forums/threads dick pics may in fact be appropriate and which threads forums they aren't and should be moderated/removed?
  • lovegoblin 6y ago
    > You don't get why a online forum might have an interest in ensuring every other post isn't a dick pic? The confusing part is not that they're attempting to clean the site - it's their ineffective, half-assed ways of doing it.
• Meekro 6y ago
  > Once you've deemed a community so harmful that you don't want people accidentally stumbling into it, why go out of your way to allow it to exist behind a curtain Since we all know we're talking about The_Donald, I'll just mention them specifically. Alexa traffic data considers Reddit the #6 website in the US -- they are huge, and their major actions will be noticed. If they ban their top pro-Trump community, Fox News will be talking about it later that day. Reddit execs will be answering questions in front of the US Senate a week later. Phrases like "election interference" will be thrown around. Nobody wants that. So instead they do it subtly: quarantine The_Donald, which means they don't show up in site-wide lists, can't be accessed through the mobile app, and can't be indexed by search engines. This stems their growth. Later, start replacing their moderators. Eventually you've taken it over and shut it down, and they leave. Now if Tucker Carlson wants to tell his audience about it, he has to explain to a bunch of 60-somethings what a "forum moderator" is. Not happening. Honestly, I think what they did worked out best for everyone. Reddit is happy to be rid of them, and they're happy with their new website, TheDonald.win. Everybody wins.
  • haunter 6y ago
    But the sub doesn't "exist" for months, no new posts https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/new/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/new/ There is a pinned mod message which leads you to the new site but that's entirely out of reddit
• naravara 6y ago
  >They sometimes come up with measures like this, while routinely ignoring the development of horrible communities that they're aware of (since some users take any possible opportunity to mention them to the admins and are met with silence or half measures). I think their main challenge is they have a cultural/temperamental resistance to making decisions on a case-by-case basis. Any time there is a problem it seems like they try to overgeneralize and come up with a sort of rule or heuristic that can apply in every case and situation. But since the "toxicity" of a community is usually more subtle than that they end up always being way too reactive.
• falcolas 6y ago
  > I don't really get reddit's efforts to clean their site. That's easy - advertising. The same reason YouTube cleaned up it's act. And Gifycat. And a dozen other sites who found themselves at the wrong end of their advertiser's ire.
• Shivetya 6y ago
  What is going on at Reddit is that the cancel culture has found how to take down content they do not find acceptable and worse persecute those whose content they have taken down or disagree with. So, using a combination of email blasts, instant messaging, and more, these groups focus down a site or individual. This can involve simple brigade type tactics against posted comments and stories, complete with abusing the site reporting process, to flag users and content they disagree with. Sometimes it requires pressuring those higher up with public shaming for permitting something they may not be aware of by use of the common innuendo of if they don't take action they agree with all the hateful, if any, aspects of the target. When any social site becomes large enough to receive mentions on other sites and media it immediately becomes a target of groups seeking to control the message and attack those who do not wholly support that message. Even minor disagreements can be sufficient to attract ire. the moral majority is an authoritarian regime and it will have a further damning effect than any feared religious right that people constantly brought up as an internet or social bogeyman. the very fact they now state ideas they don't agree with as making them physically uncomfortable to the point they declare if violence should scare anyone. this is code for saying no limits are required to remove the threat. 1984 isn't government oppressing people, it is people oppressing people * btw - only reddit you can be banned from reddits you never visited for activity on another sub (including just voting apparently)
• dredmorbius 6y ago
  The bans, as announced in Reddit's annual Transparency Report this past February, apply specifically to actions in quarantined subreddits: Users who consistently upvote policy-breaking content within quarantined communities will receive automated warnings, followed by further consequences like a temporary or permanent suspension. We hope this will encourage healthier behavior across these communities. https://old.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/f8y9nx/spring_forward_into_reddits_2019_transparency/ https://old.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/f8y9nx/sprin... Quarantines offer greater flexibility in monitoring and management, with fair warning to members.
• d1zzy 6y ago
  > They even came up with the concept of quarantined subreddits. I honestly can't think of a single honest reason for them existing. Once you've deemed a community so harmful that you don't want people accidentally stumbling into it, why go out of your way to allow it to exist behind a curtain, instead of just outright banning it (unless you want to support it discreetly). In what world, refusing to ban something from your online platform is equivalent to "supporting it" (discreetly)? Reddit is a business, the business of getting ad money for providing an open discussion forum. They are free to decide what they host and what they not but simply hosting something (which in their case means, doing business with people that post that content) doesn't mean they support it. Supporting something is not the opposite of not supporting it. It's like saying that Amazon _supports_ pornography because AWS allows to host pornographic content.