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> It’s usually easy enough to remove the bottom cover of any laptop without particularly special screwdrivers. "particularly special"? The screwdrivers needed
by jessriedel 6y ago
> It’s usually easy enough to remove the bottom cover of any laptop without particularly special screwdrivers.
"particularly special"? The screwdrivers needed to open up a Macbook are special enough that I've never seen them used for any other object. So are you just glad that Apple didn't decide to create a new screwdriver standard for each Macbook model? :)
- bdcravens 6y agoHuawei has also used those screws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw#Non-Apple_manufacturers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw#Non-A...
- cgriswald 6y agoI'm not sure Apple is representative of the category, although it could just be that the GP only has a narrow range of experience with laptops. A generous interpretation would exclude from "particular special" anything which is standard and not bespoke, even if it is less common. In any case, the bits are readily available. I've been using this guy for years: https://www.amazon.com/ORIA-Screwdriver-Professional-Precision-Smartphone/dp/B01E16J6RQ https://www.amazon.com/ORIA-Screwdriver-Professional-Precisi... Currently $18. I haven't come across a device for which this kit didn't have a bit and the driver feels good in the hand. The outer case is hard plastic, but the inner "lining" is soft plastic, unfortunately. I wouldn't mind a similar kit with a better case, or just a carrier that will handle this kit neatly if anyone has suggestions.
- larrywright 6y agoI have the same set, and agree on the case. If they spent $5 more on the case they could probably charge twice as much.
- hombre_fatal 6y agoA popular meme but seems somewhat overstated. Most people don't have small pen-sized phillips screwdrivers either on hand and would need to purchase one for this case as well.
- jessriedel 6y agoYes, maybe greater than 50% of people. But if Apple used a standard then you could get them from your hardware store, or your neighbor. And you could keep them to work on your eyeglasses too.
- jessriedel 6y agoAlso, the fact that Apple bothered to use a weird screw is evidence that this represents a substantive barrier to many people. I mean, most people are never going to open their laptop in the first place; of those that would, a large fraction will have standard small screw drivers on hand.
- aspenmayer 6y agoFor all the parents of curious young hackers, a minor hurdle preventing easy access to internals has likely saved an untold number of laptops from unauthorized disassembly. It’s good to learn at a young age to have permission beforehand, instead of exceeding authorized access. A little help from the manufacturer goes a long way in that regard.
- ACow_Adonis 6y agobut the entire way many of us learnt to be hackers was through unauthorised disassembly :(
- aspenmayer 6y agoGood point, and it's one well taken. It's preferable to have a close relationship with your kids so they don't hide things from you, except things you're better off not knowing. To the point at hand, part of hacking, and life generally, is discretion. I learned not to do something I shouldn't as much from my upbringing, as I learned from my own testing. I was the kid who touched the hot stove after being told not to, as well as the electric fence. It wasn't such much defiance as discovery. I didn't find the potential for harm especially dissuading. I'd rather suffer a little harm in a controlled way than not know something so simple about my constructed environment. I was kind of a weird kid, now that I think about it. I like to think that I'm not the only one.
- neilv 6y agoBTW, one of the most useful tools I've found for working on arbitrary modern electronics (after a basic set of ordinary screwdrivers and jewelers' drivers, a needlenose pliers, and some kind of spudger) is a $10-$20 set of as many different security screw bits as you can get. IME, it pays for itself the first time you need one of the bits, and I wish I'd bought a bigger set the first time.
- isoskeles 6y agoI also find these very useful, but I have some that wore down and start stripping the screws. I'd like to find a set that isn't prone to wear, unless that is simply a fact of life. I'm wondering if I was just being too cheap when I bought my first set.
- neilv 6y agoGood point. One of my sets was of noticeably poor quality compared to the others. For bits I was using frequently, I'd try to find a tools seller with a brand to protect (probably not on Amazon, with their SKU commingling).
- simcop2387 6y agoI've had good luck with the iFixIt kits, but I haven't had to use them often enough that wear might be a real issue, so perhaps I just haven't seen it.
- Reason077 6y agoI bought this set a year ago and have been very happy with them. The heads/bits seem very solid hard steel. Not the soft ones that you often get. Comes with all the weird pentalobe etc bits for Apple and Nintendo etc. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0728BJ7TH/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0728BJ7TH/
- mirashii 6y agoI've had good luck with Wiha tools.
- _bxg1 6y agoThey make screwdriver kits specifically for working on electronics and many of them include an Apple-style head. It's annoying that you need to buy one, but they aren't hard to find.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoYou’re hyperventilating about a $5 tool.
- gauravjain13 6y agoApple uses Torx screws, as do several other products. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
- lambda_tango 6y agoSince when? They used Pentalobe on just about everything the last decade. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw Though it's gotten easier to get pentalobe screwdrivers, albeit made of Chinesium.
- wtallis 6y agoApple products often use pentalobe only for the outer casing, and standard torx for all the interior screws.
- GeekyBear 6y ago>So are you just glad that Apple didn't decide to create a new screwdriver standard for each Macbook model? :) Compared to Microsoft? They created a laptop that was impossible to open at all without destroying it. >According to iFixit, the Surface Laptop isn’t repairable at all. In fact, it got a 0 out of 10 for repairability and was labeled a “glue-filled monstrosity.” The lowest scores previously were a 1 out of 10 for all previous iterations of the Surface Pro It’s clear that Microsoft never intended for the Surface Laptop to be repaired because it’s a completely sealed device. There aren’t even any screws to take out, so iFixit had to slice the fabric cover open to peel it away from the metal chassis. That’s never going back together. The inner metal shield is also devoid of screws, relying instead upon spot welds and glue. Again, this is probably not going to be reassembled. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/251046-ifixit-labels-surface-laptop-glue-filled-monstrosity https://www.extremetech.com/computing/251046-ifixit-labels-s...
- slivanes 6y agoYou must be talking about the Surface laptop first and second generation only. The latest generation is actually quite repairable as far as laptops go: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+3++(13.5-inch)+Teardown/127330 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+3++... Microsoft are improving in this regard, unlike Apple.
- tinus_hn 6y agoDid they start offering screen repairs for the tablets yet? Preferably for less than the price of the whole thing.
- jessriedel 6y agoWhat about my comment makes you think I intended to make a Apple vs. Microsoft comparison?
- dexterdog 6y agoI have always been able to remove my MacBookPro screws with a small slotted driver.
- def8cefe 6y agoThey're security torx, iirc T7 size. You can get these bits at pretty much any hardware store.
- fermienrico 6y agoWhy not non-secure T7 screws?
- jandrese 6y agoThe security versions have a raised part in the middle that makes it impossible to use the regular Torx bit.
- fermienrico 6y agoI don’t think we are getting to the bottom of what the parent’s parent comment is talking about. Apple decided to use T7 security screws instead of just normal T7 torx. Why!? I am not looking for answers to the differences and what makes a security bit different. I am asking a more abstract rhetorical question - Why make it harder for the consumer to take the laptop apart? Especially, if it’s not impossible - just a little bit harder.
- evan_ 6y agothe more surface area that’s contacted between the driver and the fastener, the more friction and the better they hold on to the automatic drivers used to assemble the devices. On such a tiny screw the center pin probably adds an extra 20% or more surface area. I don’t know if that’s absolutely the reason but if they wanted to keep people out they could easily make a custom head that looked like the Apple logo or something. Nintendo has used tri-wing screws for decades because they expressly do want to keep people out of their devices. You can stop get a tri-wing driver but you have to special order it.
- def8cefe 6y agoThe security torx bits are much weaker, I've actually snapped quite a few of them which has never happened to me with any other type.
- cameldrv 6y agoI got one of these: https://www.tekton.com/everybit-tech-rescue-kit-28301 https://www.tekton.com/everybit-tech-rescue-kit-28301 It has everything you need to open essentially any computer and iPhones as well, and it's very compact.
- tw04 6y agoThey’re standard torx bit. Not particularly special and I’ve come across all manner of gadgets that use the same thing.