6 ms·

When I was a teen, K&R The C Programming Language changed my life. Years later I shared an elevator with him at Usenix. I always regretted not saying somethin

When I was a teen, K&R The C Programming Language changed my life. Years later I shared an elevator with him at Usenix. I always regretted not saying something to him, but I didn't have the words. Kids: If you meet your heroes, say something. "Thank you" is good if you don't have the words.

mettamage 6y ago
When approaching strangers, saying something appreciative in a respectful way is neutral at absolute worst and quite amazing at best. Case in point: Andrew Tanenbaum: I said that his work was amazing and thanked him. He shrugged me off. I think he felt busy or didn’t care. I was happy that he listened. Jane McGonigal: retweeted my question while I had 0 followers and followed about 10 people. A semi-famous Dutch rapper: he was appreciative. I have many examples with non-famous people too. The rule applies to both. I originally learned it as a dating concept (a decade ago) but quickly decided to compliment anyone that I genuinely wanted to give a compliment. The reason it can still be quite amazing is simply because strangers don’t dare to compliment other people that much. I have only seen it once from another person. You can test this theory by giving a compliment to someone you think never receives it but deserves one (my go to: cleaners, especially if it’s really clean) and to someone who does receive them more often. My experience: both can still be quite awesome but the cleaners I complimented really went out of their way to be appreciative (not always, just sometimes). One even invited me to his home and I discovered he also was a music producer on the side. We made some music together as I am a hobbyist myself. I never looked at cleaners the same way again.
- BruceEel 6y ago
  > Andrew Tanenbaum: I said that his work was amazing and thanked him. He shrugged me off. I think he felt busy or didn’t care. I was happy that he listened. I'd signed up to attend his 'afscheid' lecture, thinking I might try go get my copy of 'Computer Networks' signed. Did not get around to going, probably for the better ;) It's hard to overcome the 'say nothing' reflex. Years ago, g/f and I were visiting the Carl-Henning Pedersen museum in the town of Herning (DK), somehow we were the only visitors on that afternoon. We were blown away by the amazing wall decorations and his art. On the way out we ran into someone from the museum's staff and the Maestro himself (this was a few years before he passed away). What did we do? We just smiled and walked past them. I dunno.... And +1 the cleaners, for sure.
- amelius 6y ago
  People who are bad at receiving compliments are often bad at giving them too, and vice versa.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  > Andrew Tanenbaum: I said that his work was amazing and thanked him. He shrugged me off. I think he felt busy or didn’t care. I was happy that he listened. I have the same reaction to people thanking me out of nowhere especially when I am deep into my own thoughts and it's awkward to say something after the shrug. The realisation comes latter. So there is a chance he did appreciate your thank you but couldn't reply back properly.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    Ah, that's also an explanation. I tend to take the most optimistic interpretation.
    - P-NP 6y ago
      > So there is a chance he did appreciate your thank you but couldn't reply back properly. > I tend to take the most optimistic interpretation. Yes, always take the most optimistic interpretation compatible with the known facts. Best way to stay happy.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  > I never looked at cleaners the same way again. Cleaners are people and are as complex, multi-faceted and interesting as anyone. No-one ignored me when I was a cleaner (I'm not a person to let them!), but I knew a girl who cleaned at a uni and she felt the students ignored her. She was a great person and they would have loved to have known her, she would have loved them back, it could have been great, but they probably didn't see her and I think she felt they were above her, and didn't try (well, smart students at a uni, she was a menial worker etc). So the gap was never bridged - and had it been bridged, simply being acknowledged and chatted to by them, and appreciated as a person, would have helped her through a truly terrible time in her life. As well as making her job much nicer in the not-awful parts of her life. People often don't see cleaners, cleaners/janitors/maintenance etc. sometimes they feel overawed or outclassed or something and scared off. Learn to see them, learn to say hello, let them know they are appreciated (as people, not as cleaners etc). It makes a huge difference to someone's work of scrubbing the floors, it really does. Like I said, it was my job once.
- codr7 6y ago
  The thing with admiration and fame is it isn't as positive as we like to think. No one ever did anything worth mentioning for others to admire them, they did it because they had to for whatever reasons. Treating them the same as you would any other person is likely to have a more positive effect. I've had some really interesting interactions with famous people I didn't even recognize until later.
- slim 6y ago
  I guess it's also dependent on culture. for instance in my mediterranean culture people are much more expressive and sometimes tend to be over-appreciative with strangers. which I feel is sometimes disconforting because harassing if you're a celebrity
- trollied 6y ago
  I worked as a cleaner in a tax office. After a few months I ended up spending time helping people with their Excel skills, as someone had asked if I was studying etc & I told them Computer Science :) I have found that some people always view you as stupid when you’re doing certain jobs. When I was serving pints in a pub, people just assumed it was my career & that I was thick. I’ve found it very important to not pre-judge.
tmh88j 6y ago
>Kids: If you meet your heroes, say something. "Thank you" is good if you don't have the words. I'm a huge gearhead. I live in the US, but a few years ago I was in Rome for work. I was out to a late lunch with my boss and was explaining that one of my favorite boutique car manufacturers, Pagani, is just south of Napoli and that I wanted to take a weekend trip to visit their facilities. No later than 10 minutes did Mr. Horacio Pagani himself walks into the restaurant and I had full on fanboy panic attack. It was just the four of us in a restaurant; my boss and I, Horacio and his friend. I froze up and couldn't finish my meal. I tried to explain to my boss, but he didn't seem to understand. As we were leaving, Horacio got up too, which made me incredibly nervous. He looked at me and in my terrible Spanish (he was raised in Argentina, which I knew because as I mentioned I was a fanboy) I muttered "mucho gusto, soy un fan de tus autos". He smiled and nodded. I've never felt like such an idiot but so happy at the same time. Horacio Pagaini was a chief engineer at Lamborghini and basically pioneered carbon fiber manufacturing. He tried to convince Lamborghini to use carbon fiber parts, but their response was that if Ferrari wasn't using them, neither would they. Obviously that didn't last long.... He left Lamborghini and started his own company to manufacture carbon fiber parts and eventually created some of the most amazing "hypercars" that money can buy (see Pagani Huayra and Zonda). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horacio_Pagani_(auto_executive) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horacio_Pagani_(auto_executive...
- tartoran 6y ago
  Nicest thing is to meet and interact amazing people and not know who they are, makes for a more natural exchange IMO
- hobo_mark 6y ago
  The only Pagani factory I can find is on the opposite side of the country, near Modena, you sure there's one south of Naples?
elygre 6y ago
A friend of mine once found herself seated next to Paulo Coelho (famous author of e.g. The Alchemist) on a flight. She was a huge fan, but out of respect for his privacy did not initiate any conversation. Turns out he’s been flying to be part of a major talk show. The next night she watches the host ask the author about being famous. The author responds by saying that best part is that people approach him, and that he therefor gets to talk to so many different people, hear their stories and learn about their experiences. So yeah. Say “thank you”.
- notkaiho 6y ago
  But, as your friend thought, being respectful is also important. By all means say thank you, but don't expect much response beyond an acknowledgement. Famous people get TIRED of strangers talking to them, as much as they like the random encounters.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - macintux 6y ago
    I suspect that varies. Actors, e.g., are far more likely to be recognized. I think the only author I’m a fan of who I’d recognize is Asimov, and obviously I’m unlikely to meet him on the street.
auggierose 6y ago
You are right :-) Shared the elevator with Dana Scott once at a conference in Seattle. Even exited it on the same floor, and we actually had hotel rooms next to each other. But I managed to say nothing to him :-D
gbacon 6y ago
I got to meet Larry Wall at the first Perl Conference in San Jose. I think Tom introduced us. I was dumbstruck: “Wow, I don’t know what to say; thank you.” He smiled awkwardly: “You’re welcome, I guess.” Textbook Larry. Randal and I were on the same flight out of ATL and met up for a bite in an airport restaurant. Not just for the celebrities in our profession, let the people in your everyday world know how much they mean to you, how they’ve helped you out, how they’ve made meaningful differences in your life, that you care about them, and that you love them. Life is too short not to.
frost_knight 6y ago
Back in 2007 I was the chair of the Washington, DC chapter of the ACM. The chapter had been dormant for a while so I thought hosting a lecture by a big name in computing would be a good kickstart. I emailed Brian Kernighan asking if he'd be available and willing to give a talk on Unix. He said he'd be absolutely delighted. He was a wonderful speaker and just a great guy to talk to. He patiently signed copies of K&R C that folks had brought, told interesting anecdotes, and was a kind and pleasant person to everyone who spoke with him. Very approachable. One thing I remember is him telling me that he only gets stage nerves if he knows he's being filmed. Massive crowd? No problem. Photographs? Go for it. Video cameras? If you do, you have my permission but don't tell me, and make sure I don't notice them. After that I kept reaching out to other Big Names, and many of them said yes. I figured there was no harm in asking, all they could do is say no. And not a single person I asked said no because they didn't want to, it was always because the scheduling or travel just wouldn't line up properly.

mettamage 6y ago

When approaching strangers, saying something appreciative in a respectful way is neutral at absolute worst and quite amazing at best. Case in point: Andrew Tanenbaum: I said that his work was amazing and thanked him. He shrugged me off. I think he felt busy or didn’t care. I was happy that he listened. Jane McGonigal: retweeted my question while I had 0 followers and followed about 10 people. A semi-famous Dutch rapper: he was appreciative. I have many examples with non-famous people too. The rule applies to both. I originally learned it as a dating concept (a decade ago) but quickly decided to compliment anyone that I genuinely wanted to give a compliment. The reason it can still be quite amazing is simply because strangers don’t dare to compliment other people that much. I have only seen it once from another person. You can test this theory by giving a compliment to someone you think never receives it but deserves one (my go to: cleaners, especially if it’s really clean) and to someone who does receive them more often. My experience: both can still be quite awesome but the cleaners I complimented really went out of their way to be appreciative (not always, just sometimes). One even invited me to his home and I discovered he also was a music producer on the side. We made some music together as I am a hobbyist myself. I never looked at cleaners the same way again.

BruceEel 6y ago
> Andrew Tanenbaum: I said that his work was amazing and thanked him. He shrugged me off. I think he felt busy or didn’t care. I was happy that he listened. I'd signed up to attend his 'afscheid' lecture, thinking I might try go get my copy of 'Computer Networks' signed. Did not get around to going, probably for the better ;) It's hard to overcome the 'say nothing' reflex. Years ago, g/f and I were visiting the Carl-Henning Pedersen museum in the town of Herning (DK), somehow we were the only visitors on that afternoon. We were blown away by the amazing wall decorations and his art. On the way out we ran into someone from the museum's staff and the Maestro himself (this was a few years before he passed away). What did we do? We just smiled and walked past them. I dunno.... And +1 the cleaners, for sure.
amelius 6y ago
People who are bad at receiving compliments are often bad at giving them too, and vice versa.
searchableguy 6y ago
> Andrew Tanenbaum: I said that his work was amazing and thanked him. He shrugged me off. I think he felt busy or didn’t care. I was happy that he listened. I have the same reaction to people thanking me out of nowhere especially when I am deep into my own thoughts and it's awkward to say something after the shrug. The realisation comes latter. So there is a chance he did appreciate your thank you but couldn't reply back properly.
- mettamage 6y ago
  Ah, that's also an explanation. I tend to take the most optimistic interpretation.
  - P-NP 6y ago
    > So there is a chance he did appreciate your thank you but couldn't reply back properly. > I tend to take the most optimistic interpretation. Yes, always take the most optimistic interpretation compatible with the known facts. Best way to stay happy.
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
> I never looked at cleaners the same way again. Cleaners are people and are as complex, multi-faceted and interesting as anyone. No-one ignored me when I was a cleaner (I'm not a person to let them!), but I knew a girl who cleaned at a uni and she felt the students ignored her. She was a great person and they would have loved to have known her, she would have loved them back, it could have been great, but they probably didn't see her and I think she felt they were above her, and didn't try (well, smart students at a uni, she was a menial worker etc). So the gap was never bridged - and had it been bridged, simply being acknowledged and chatted to by them, and appreciated as a person, would have helped her through a truly terrible time in her life. As well as making her job much nicer in the not-awful parts of her life. People often don't see cleaners, cleaners/janitors/maintenance etc. sometimes they feel overawed or outclassed or something and scared off. Learn to see them, learn to say hello, let them know they are appreciated (as people, not as cleaners etc). It makes a huge difference to someone's work of scrubbing the floors, it really does. Like I said, it was my job once.
codr7 6y ago
The thing with admiration and fame is it isn't as positive as we like to think. No one ever did anything worth mentioning for others to admire them, they did it because they had to for whatever reasons. Treating them the same as you would any other person is likely to have a more positive effect. I've had some really interesting interactions with famous people I didn't even recognize until later.
slim 6y ago
I guess it's also dependent on culture. for instance in my mediterranean culture people are much more expressive and sometimes tend to be over-appreciative with strangers. which I feel is sometimes disconforting because harassing if you're a celebrity
trollied 6y ago
I worked as a cleaner in a tax office. After a few months I ended up spending time helping people with their Excel skills, as someone had asked if I was studying etc & I told them Computer Science :) I have found that some people always view you as stupid when you’re doing certain jobs. When I was serving pints in a pub, people just assumed it was my career & that I was thick. I’ve found it very important to not pre-judge.

tmh88j 6y ago

>Kids: If you meet your heroes, say something. "Thank you" is good if you don't have the words. I'm a huge gearhead. I live in the US, but a few years ago I was in Rome for work. I was out to a late lunch with my boss and was explaining that one of my favorite boutique car manufacturers, Pagani, is just south of Napoli and that I wanted to take a weekend trip to visit their facilities. No later than 10 minutes did Mr. Horacio Pagani himself walks into the restaurant and I had full on fanboy panic attack. It was just the four of us in a restaurant; my boss and I, Horacio and his friend. I froze up and couldn't finish my meal. I tried to explain to my boss, but he didn't seem to understand. As we were leaving, Horacio got up too, which made me incredibly nervous. He looked at me and in my terrible Spanish (he was raised in Argentina, which I knew because as I mentioned I was a fanboy) I muttered "mucho gusto, soy un fan de tus autos". He smiled and nodded. I've never felt like such an idiot but so happy at the same time. Horacio Pagaini was a chief engineer at Lamborghini and basically pioneered carbon fiber manufacturing. He tried to convince Lamborghini to use carbon fiber parts, but their response was that if Ferrari wasn't using them, neither would they. Obviously that didn't last long.... He left Lamborghini and started his own company to manufacture carbon fiber parts and eventually created some of the most amazing "hypercars" that money can buy (see Pagani Huayra and Zonda). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horacio_Pagani_(auto_executive) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horacio_Pagani_(auto_executive...

tartoran 6y ago
Nicest thing is to meet and interact amazing people and not know who they are, makes for a more natural exchange IMO
hobo_mark 6y ago
The only Pagani factory I can find is on the opposite side of the country, near Modena, you sure there's one south of Naples?

elygre 6y ago

A friend of mine once found herself seated next to Paulo Coelho (famous author of e.g. The Alchemist) on a flight. She was a huge fan, but out of respect for his privacy did not initiate any conversation. Turns out he’s been flying to be part of a major talk show. The next night she watches the host ask the author about being famous. The author responds by saying that best part is that people approach him, and that he therefor gets to talk to so many different people, hear their stories and learn about their experiences. So yeah. Say “thank you”.

notkaiho 6y ago
But, as your friend thought, being respectful is also important. By all means say thank you, but don't expect much response beyond an acknowledgement. Famous people get TIRED of strangers talking to them, as much as they like the random encounters.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- macintux 6y ago
  I suspect that varies. Actors, e.g., are far more likely to be recognized. I think the only author I’m a fan of who I’d recognize is Asimov, and obviously I’m unlikely to meet him on the street.

auggierose 6y ago

You are right :-) Shared the elevator with Dana Scott once at a conference in Seattle. Even exited it on the same floor, and we actually had hotel rooms next to each other. But I managed to say nothing to him :-D

gbacon 6y ago

I got to meet Larry Wall at the first Perl Conference in San Jose. I think Tom introduced us. I was dumbstruck: “Wow, I don’t know what to say; thank you.” He smiled awkwardly: “You’re welcome, I guess.” Textbook Larry. Randal and I were on the same flight out of ATL and met up for a bite in an airport restaurant. Not just for the celebrities in our profession, let the people in your everyday world know how much they mean to you, how they’ve helped you out, how they’ve made meaningful differences in your life, that you care about them, and that you love them. Life is too short not to.

frost_knight 6y ago

Back in 2007 I was the chair of the Washington, DC chapter of the ACM. The chapter had been dormant for a while so I thought hosting a lecture by a big name in computing would be a good kickstart. I emailed Brian Kernighan asking if he'd be available and willing to give a talk on Unix. He said he'd be absolutely delighted. He was a wonderful speaker and just a great guy to talk to. He patiently signed copies of K&R C that folks had brought, told interesting anecdotes, and was a kind and pleasant person to everyone who spoke with him. Very approachable. One thing I remember is him telling me that he only gets stage nerves if he knows he's being filmed. Massive crowd? No problem. Photographs? Go for it. Video cameras? If you do, you have my permission but don't tell me, and make sure I don't notice them. After that I kept reaching out to other Big Names, and many of them said yes. I figured there was no harm in asking, all they could do is say no. And not a single person I asked said no because they didn't want to, it was always because the scheduling or travel just wouldn't line up properly.