5 ms·

what are some examples that are thought to be in this category?

3131s 6y ago
9/11, at least depending on your definition of "false flag". The Bush administration had foreknowledge of the attacks and actively suppressed attempts to stop them. George W. Bush was close personal friends with one of the key architects of 9/11 and afterwards great measures were taken to cover up this person's involvement (the so-called "28 pages"). A lot of other people would cite the Gulf of Tonkin as an example too, but that's something I know less about so I'll leave it to someone else.
- 3131s 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud
- catalogia 6y ago
  > A lot of other people would cite the Gulf of Tonkin as an example too, but that's something I know less about so I'll leave it to someone else. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was explained to the American public at the time as pair of attacks on two separate nights against the US Navy by the North Vietnamese. This was used as the casus belli for the Vietnam War; in response to the two attacks congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which authorized LBJ to start a war (without formally declaring a war...) The first attack probably did happen, however in 2003 Robert McNamara (who had been the US Secretary of Defense at the time of the incident) admitted the second attack never happened. Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > This was used as the casus belli for the Vietnam War No, it was used as the excuse for yet another escalation of the Vietnam War, which the US had been overtly been involved in since immediately after the French gave up in 1954, and had significantly escalated it's involvement in (again, overtly) throughout the Kennedy Administration.
    - catalogia 6y ago
      Fair point, but the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution allowed LBJ to increase the American presence in Vietnam by an order of magnitude.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
As far as "intelligence ops gone awry," you can almost take any random "FBI busts up terror plot" story and on closer inspection it turns out they were goading the suspects into it and providing material support. An example where that may have gotten out of hand is the Boston Marathon bombing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21690520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21690520
joe_the_user 6y ago
Another notable example was ATF piping guns to the cartels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
- jml7c5 6y ago
  It's misleading to call that a false flag, as it was not an act intended to deceive the public. While the operation used methods of dubious legality and morality to gather information, the 2000 or so guns that were allowed to walk constituted only a small fraction of guns already being smuggled across the border.
  - ta17711771 6y ago
    They recovered a laughably small percentage, and that violence is used to justify a lot of money spent combatting cartels...
  - 3131s 6y ago
    The US government has an unofficial alliance with the Sinaloa cartel. It's always been my guess that Fast & Furious was about supplying arms to them, or at least that makes more sense than "gathering information" as an objective.
    - ta17711771 6y ago
      Biiiingo.
    - edgarvaldes 6y ago
      As a mexican, this is interesting to me. Any more info/sources?
      - salemh 6y ago
        I don't know what the parent is referring to recently, but years ago Wikileaks had a Stratfor memo during the violence of the Zetas which gave 'tacit' approval to Sinoloa. https://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-the-us-works-with-cartels-2012-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-the-us-works-with-c... https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/17/1747720_re-fwd-re-fw-from-mx1-2-.html https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/17/1747720_re-fwd-re-fw-f...
throwaway743 6y ago
Operation Northwoods was a proposal by the DoD. They planned to use the CIA to carry out false flag/terrorist attacks on Americans and blame it on Cuba. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

9/11, at least depending on your definition of "false flag". The Bush administration had foreknowledge of the attacks and actively suppressed attempts to stop them. George W. Bush was close personal friends with one of the key architects of 9/11 and afterwards great measures were taken to cover up this person's involvement (the so-called "28 pages"). A lot of other people would cite the Gulf of Tonkin as an example too, but that's something I know less about so I'll leave it to someone else.

3131s 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud
catalogia 6y ago
> A lot of other people would cite the Gulf of Tonkin as an example too, but that's something I know less about so I'll leave it to someone else. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was explained to the American public at the time as pair of attacks on two separate nights against the US Navy by the North Vietnamese. This was used as the casus belli for the Vietnam War; in response to the two attacks congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which authorized LBJ to start a war (without formally declaring a war...) The first attack probably did happen, however in 2003 Robert McNamara (who had been the US Secretary of Defense at the time of the incident) admitted the second attack never happened. Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > This was used as the casus belli for the Vietnam War No, it was used as the excuse for yet another escalation of the Vietnam War, which the US had been overtly been involved in since immediately after the French gave up in 1954, and had significantly escalated it's involvement in (again, overtly) throughout the Kennedy Administration.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    Fair point, but the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution allowed LBJ to increase the American presence in Vietnam by an order of magnitude.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

As far as "intelligence ops gone awry," you can almost take any random "FBI busts up terror plot" story and on closer inspection it turns out they were goading the suspects into it and providing material support. An example where that may have gotten out of hand is the Boston Marathon bombing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21690520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21690520

joe_the_user 6y ago

Another notable example was ATF piping guns to the cartels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

jml7c5 6y ago
It's misleading to call that a false flag, as it was not an act intended to deceive the public. While the operation used methods of dubious legality and morality to gather information, the 2000 or so guns that were allowed to walk constituted only a small fraction of guns already being smuggled across the border.
- ta17711771 6y ago
  They recovered a laughably small percentage, and that violence is used to justify a lot of money spent combatting cartels...
- 3131s 6y ago
  The US government has an unofficial alliance with the Sinaloa cartel. It's always been my guess that Fast & Furious was about supplying arms to them, or at least that makes more sense than "gathering information" as an objective.
  - ta17711771 6y ago
    Biiiingo.
  - edgarvaldes 6y ago
    As a mexican, this is interesting to me. Any more info/sources?
    - salemh 6y ago
      I don't know what the parent is referring to recently, but years ago Wikileaks had a Stratfor memo during the violence of the Zetas which gave 'tacit' approval to Sinoloa. https://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-the-us-works-with-cartels-2012-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-the-us-works-with-c... https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/17/1747720_re-fwd-re-fw-from-mx1-2-.html https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/17/1747720_re-fwd-re-fw-f...

throwaway743 6y ago

Operation Northwoods was a proposal by the DoD. They planned to use the CIA to carry out false flag/terrorist attacks on Americans and blame it on Cuba. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods