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> Why would the euro be in real trouble. How about zero net economic growth for 20-25 years and no prospect of that trend changing? Countries in the Eurzone w
by adventured 6y ago
> Why would the euro be in real trouble.
How about zero net economic growth for 20-25 years and no prospect of that trend changing?
Countries in the Eurzone who have seen negative real economic growth since 2007 or 2008:
Belgium, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain
The only growth economies over the past decade are smaller: Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Ireland
In 2008 Germany's GDP per capita hit $45,400. In 2019 it was $46,500. That's a massive real negative contraction given the debasement of the Euro and even a tiny bit of real inflation per year. That's the most potent economy in all of Europe and certainly in the Eurozone. The outcomes for France, Italy and Spain are that much worse over that span of time. Now Germany is facing a big hit to their advanced industrial foundations, as China and electric cars eat into the things they do particularly well. Germany will suffer de-industrialization (which they've held off longer than anyone else) and they have no replacement plan for that situation. Will Germany somehow come up with a massive, global tech economy to rival the US and China? There's no evidence of trend in the past decade. How does the Eurozone fare well without Germany moving it forward? It doesn't.
In the time the Eurozone has stagnated the US went from a GDP per capita of $48,300 to $65,000 and the US economy will again recover from the pandemic faster than Europe's economy, broadly, will; for the exact same reason it did with the great recession. That will add further weakness to the Euro by contrast.
Here's what that stagnation looks like: https://i.imgur.com/ep9kSOw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ep9kSOw.jpg
Besides that giant problem, Germany is going to again face enormous pressure around the way they inflate the value of the Euro at the expense of Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece (making them not-as-competitive on exports). As with the non-recovery after the great recession, that problem will again be amplified and felt as these economies attempt to recover from the pandemic recession. They all know it's unfair that Germany gets to free-ride on a cheap currency (cheap for Germany, expensive for Italy & Co), producing the world's largest trade imbalance.
So the Eurozone is already on year 12-13 of negative growth. They were just beginning to inch above the great recession line of 2007-2008 in nominal terms. Now they've been reset by a minimum of five years, given how slow the major Eurozone economies have been growing. More likely, it's going to be a lost 20-25 years in total, stretching from 2007 to 2027 or 2032 approximately. And then at some point the next recession will hit, and on it goes.
The Euro is not going to do well accordingly.
- francis44 6y agoWhere is your data for GDP per capita from? I tried to look up the same on below links but the values and trends are very different from yours. Maybe it is measuring something different but I can't tell the difference. https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-per-capita https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-per-capita https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita
- DeonPenny 6y agohttps://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:USA:GBR:CAN&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=world&idim=country:USA:GBR:CAN:DEU&ifdim=world&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&... Worldbank
- trystero 6y agoI don't know what you're talking about. https://db.nomics.world/IMF/WEOAGG?dimensions=%7B%22unit%22%3A%5B%22us_dollars%22%5D%2C%22weo-subject%22%3A%5B%22NGDPD%22%5D%2C%22weo-countries-group%22%3A%5B%22163%22%5D%7D&tab=chart https://db.nomics.world/IMF/WEOAGG?dimensions=%7B%22unit%22%...
- NhanH 6y agoDid you just post a link that support the GP's point while arguing against it? Jan 2008 is 12.8k and Jan 2021(forecast?) is 13.6k.
- NicoJuicy 6y agoTo be honest, that's a pretty good answer and I will have to take some time to adjust my opinion with this information and study it. I realized this ( cfr. Why Germany benefits from the Euro), but I didn't realize the exact extend of it. But there is no alternative for the current situation, breaking up the euro zone would be very bad. Since I don't have a good response for now, I do wish to mention that the eurozone is still very "young". And for Belgium. Please check out the numbers for Flemish part vs Wallonia. Wallonia is out little place similar to Greece... They are not improving and just want more money, but it's already going on for >50 years. It's kinda depressing. ( I'm from Belgium) Ps. Do you have keybase? I would be interested in asynchronous discussions :)