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What I find most disturbing about this whole situation is the way in which these teenagers are handling themselves, especially after the fact. The continued den

What I find most disturbing about this whole situation is the way in which these teenagers are handling themselves, especially after the fact. The continued denial of responsibility and half-hearted mea culpa, coupled with the monetary damage to those businesses who had been running on PHPFog, leads me to sincerely desire that these teenagers face a penalty of some magnitude, not just a slap on the wrist. Maybe then they'll stop with the half-assed apologies and recognize that there's a right way and a wrong way to do things.

antihero 16y ago
I know, they acted as if they could get away with it by apologising. However, whatever you think of PHPFog, a lot of people have invested everything they have in that project, and it could have (and still could have) done irreperable damage to their reputation and investment. Big companies can tank this crap but attacking a new startup is like punching a child.
- comex 16y ago
  Therefore you want to sue a child?
  - jcitme 16y ago
    bring him to criminal courts. close enough.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
parfe 16y ago
Maybe then they'll stop with the half-assed apologies and recognize that there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. PHPFog built a castle out of sand and you're upset that a wave came and demolished it. I'm always surprised at how thin-skinned a lot of HN commentary is. "Oh, Zed shouldn't be so rude" "These kids' lives should be destroyed for playing games with an wholly insecure website." "I stopped reading that article because it used the word blowjob." I don't get angry at my dog when he shits in the house. Being angry at something that can't understand only satisfies the urge to shift blame. My dog shits in the house and it's my fault for not walking him sooner. If some children compromise every level of your company then getting mad at them is only trying to deflect the blame. PHPFog is the only responsible party in this mess. I feel for the customers who still trust them.
- nbpoole 16y ago
  "PHPFog built a castle out of sand and you're upset that a wave came and demolished it." Your analogy is slightly off. A wave is an act of nature: this is more along the lines of a jealous kid who knocks down someone else's sandcastle because he can't build his own. "I don't get angry at my dog when he shits in the house. Being angry at something that can't understand only satisfies the urge to shift blame." While some HN posters might feel the the 16 year olds involved in this incident have the same mental capacity as your dog, I'd like to give them slightly more credit. ;) I can only speak for myself here, but I do think the people involved in compromising PHP Fog should be punished. No, I don't think they should get life in prison (</hyperbole>): I hope they can learn from their mistakes. However, they did commit a crime, as they've admitted both here and elsewhere online. They should be capable of understanding that their actions have consequences, so I think some consequences are in order. What those consequences should be is up to PHP Fog.
  - Helianthus16 16y ago
    From the perspective of security protection, intrusions are an act of nature. You should be no more surprised at an especially strong wave than you are at an exceptionally immature child.
    - nbpoole 16y ago
      I don't think we're using the same definition of "act of nature": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God "Act of God is a legal term for events outside of human control, such as sudden floods or other natural disasters, for which no one can be held responsible" Do you think nobody can be held responsible for this breach?
      - Helianthus16 16y ago
        You're right, we're not using the same definition. That doesn't mean I don't have a point.
intended 16y ago
He is 16 and SCARED. What do you expect? A slick PR campaign? Heck in some other countries, kids aren't even considered adults at that age. He is naive and immature and realizes what he did is wrong. To make amends, in true 16 year old fashion, he gives a bullet list of errors to try and help undo the damage. For his inability to communicate, show restraint, maturity, planning and foresight, for the very crime of being young and immature, he gets people wanting to throw the book at him? In that case, can we please, pretty please, torch wall street? Its quite likely that he realizes that giving an error list is BAD and STUPID, and now is trying to back pedal by putting on a brave face to ignore the bone headed-ness of his (compounding) mistakes. Try and imagine exactly how YOU would feel if you had a huge amorphous mob saying "The FBI should come for you"? At 16 you have NO scale in your head to cope with that. Restraint is (one of) the hallmarks of maturity. As is intelligence and not taking good faith for granted - like not sending a list of errors you can be prosecuted for. Here is what I would do - call this kid parents and Leave it at that. Let the family know how close he is to being in BIG trouble. If you want to do one better, give him a constructive outlet. He is already probably one very, very, very, miserable and frightened kid right now. And he should be. Its called grace forgiveness and wisdom. As adults, we are supposed to have it. You are NEVER going to deter kids from being kids. So you need to ensure that they are scared and know where the line is drawn, so that they can become effective productive Adults.
- Aetius 16y ago
  Bah! Tomahawk 'em!
jarin 16y ago
I don't know if you were ever a teenager, but I remember when I was a teenager I had a willful disregard for consequences or how my mischief affected others. I think they should definitely get something a little stronger than a slap on the wrist, but also remember that they're just teenagers who don't know any better. All they really need is enough of a punishment to learn their lesson, and they'll probably end up productive members of society.

antihero 16y ago

I know, they acted as if they could get away with it by apologising. However, whatever you think of PHPFog, a lot of people have invested everything they have in that project, and it could have (and still could have) done irreperable damage to their reputation and investment. Big companies can tank this crap but attacking a new startup is like punching a child.

comex 16y ago
Therefore you want to sue a child?
- jcitme 16y ago
  bring him to criminal courts. close enough.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

parfe 16y ago

Maybe then they'll stop with the half-assed apologies and recognize that there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. PHPFog built a castle out of sand and you're upset that a wave came and demolished it. I'm always surprised at how thin-skinned a lot of HN commentary is. "Oh, Zed shouldn't be so rude" "These kids' lives should be destroyed for playing games with an wholly insecure website." "I stopped reading that article because it used the word blowjob." I don't get angry at my dog when he shits in the house. Being angry at something that can't understand only satisfies the urge to shift blame. My dog shits in the house and it's my fault for not walking him sooner. If some children compromise every level of your company then getting mad at them is only trying to deflect the blame. PHPFog is the only responsible party in this mess. I feel for the customers who still trust them.

nbpoole 16y ago
"PHPFog built a castle out of sand and you're upset that a wave came and demolished it." Your analogy is slightly off. A wave is an act of nature: this is more along the lines of a jealous kid who knocks down someone else's sandcastle because he can't build his own. "I don't get angry at my dog when he shits in the house. Being angry at something that can't understand only satisfies the urge to shift blame." While some HN posters might feel the the 16 year olds involved in this incident have the same mental capacity as your dog, I'd like to give them slightly more credit. ;) I can only speak for myself here, but I do think the people involved in compromising PHP Fog should be punished. No, I don't think they should get life in prison (</hyperbole>): I hope they can learn from their mistakes. However, they did commit a crime, as they've admitted both here and elsewhere online. They should be capable of understanding that their actions have consequences, so I think some consequences are in order. What those consequences should be is up to PHP Fog.
- Helianthus16 16y ago
  From the perspective of security protection, intrusions are an act of nature. You should be no more surprised at an especially strong wave than you are at an exceptionally immature child.
  - nbpoole 16y ago
    I don't think we're using the same definition of "act of nature": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God "Act of God is a legal term for events outside of human control, such as sudden floods or other natural disasters, for which no one can be held responsible" Do you think nobody can be held responsible for this breach?
    - Helianthus16 16y ago
      You're right, we're not using the same definition. That doesn't mean I don't have a point.

intended 16y ago

He is 16 and SCARED. What do you expect? A slick PR campaign? Heck in some other countries, kids aren't even considered adults at that age. He is naive and immature and realizes what he did is wrong. To make amends, in true 16 year old fashion, he gives a bullet list of errors to try and help undo the damage. For his inability to communicate, show restraint, maturity, planning and foresight, for the very crime of being young and immature, he gets people wanting to throw the book at him? In that case, can we please, pretty please, torch wall street? Its quite likely that he realizes that giving an error list is BAD and STUPID, and now is trying to back pedal by putting on a brave face to ignore the bone headed-ness of his (compounding) mistakes. Try and imagine exactly how YOU would feel if you had a huge amorphous mob saying "The FBI should come for you"? At 16 you have NO scale in your head to cope with that. Restraint is (one of) the hallmarks of maturity. As is intelligence and not taking good faith for granted - like not sending a list of errors you can be prosecuted for. Here is what I would do - call this kid parents and Leave it at that. Let the family know how close he is to being in BIG trouble. If you want to do one better, give him a constructive outlet. He is already probably one very, very, very, miserable and frightened kid right now. And he should be. Its called grace forgiveness and wisdom. As adults, we are supposed to have it. You are NEVER going to deter kids from being kids. So you need to ensure that they are scared and know where the line is drawn, so that they can become effective productive Adults.

Aetius 16y ago
Bah! Tomahawk 'em!

jarin 16y ago

I don't know if you were ever a teenager, but I remember when I was a teenager I had a willful disregard for consequences or how my mischief affected others. I think they should definitely get something a little stronger than a slap on the wrist, but also remember that they're just teenagers who don't know any better. All they really need is enough of a punishment to learn their lesson, and they'll probably end up productive members of society.