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Fuck Microsoft. I recently updated Windows and had to go through an unskippable ad for Edge. After the ad, I had to go through an unskippable setup process for

Fuck Microsoft. I recently updated Windows and had to go through an unskippable ad for Edge. After the ad, I had to go through an unskippable setup process for Edge, even though I don't use it. After I got through that, I had to tell Edge not to make itself the default browser, unpin it from my start menu, where it was added by Windows, then remove it from desktop, where it was added by Windows. I'm a paying customer, and they're plastering their shit all over my computer, just like they did in the late 90s and early 2000s. Don't be a fool and think Microsoft has changed because they give away VSCode and have added features to Github. This isn't a goodwill measure, it's a lock in measure. They're quietly trying to lock in engineers into their platform, just like they're trying to keep gamers locked in to their platform. They're trying to look like the scrappy little guy competing against Apple, but this only after their Windows App store has failed to do anything. They wait until their hand busts before tattling - if the Windows store succeeds, they happily go along with it. If it fails, they talk about how great a tragedy it is for the American consumer.

slezyr 6y ago
Exactly, people forget that Valve developed SteamOS after Microsoft's shenanigans, when they tried to lockout 3rd party programs i.e. build it's own "app store"
- skocznymroczny 6y ago
  Valve, the company that almost holds a monopoly on the PC games distribution.
  - godzillabrennus 6y ago
    Epic Game Store and Xbox Game Store for PC are making headway. Epic just gave away amazing games for a month or two. I got GTA5 and Civ6 for free amongst other treasures.
    - Kaze404 6y ago
      It's worth noting that Epic Games isn't really making headway into the market by providing innovation. They're just dumping money into it, making everything worse for Linux users.
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        Linux is making everything worse for Linux gamers... The packaging story, the driver stories, the market share... The stores don't lose anything when a developer supports Linux, Epic's own engine supports Linux as a target The problem is the support costs don't seem to add up at all, and I fail to see why the store fronts would be to blame...
        Kaze404 6y ago
        Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. At least not any more than I did when I used Windows. Steam has been providing support for the Linux community for years, through native ports of their games, explicitly selling Linux ports on their store, and just making sure their client works on Linux as well. This isn't to mention their actual innovations such as the Steam Controller, Steam In-home Streaming, Steam Remote Play, and even Proton. In contrast, we have Epic Games who, besides adding nothing to the market besides a bunch of free games (which is likely going to end when/if they feel like they have a good enough share), actively killed the Linux version of Rocket League when they purchased the game. I appreciate Epic Games for the Unreal engine, but if this is how they want to get a share of the PC game store market, they're not getting a dime from me.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        > Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. Yes, really. This just sounds like the standard Linux Desktop evangelist "Works for me! (TM)". Take this case [0], where in it is claimed that support requests for Linux were vastly disproportionate to the number of Linux users. Linux has huge problems as a platform due to its fragmentary and ever-changing nature combined with its near-total disregard (in userland) for backwards compatibility. People have been screaming this at the community for the better part of a decade and a half (including Linus himself!) and mostly falling on deaf ears. Which is not to say that one should support Epic if you do happen to care about gaming on Linux. Quite the opposite, as Valve has done more than anyone[1] to try and make it work. [0] https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 [1] With the exception of the entire WINE project in general
  - Kye 6y ago
    I'm hopeful the success of Itch.io's latest bundle will help get more people to look outside Steam. https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality $8 million isn't much next to Steam, but it's a lot in a world where Steam is the default when people think of PC game stores.
  - pteraspidomorph 6y ago
    While it's true that Steam has a lot of critical mass, there are several viable alternatives for distribution in a vacuum (whether publishers and developers use them or not doesn't mean they aren't there). In addition to the EGS and Itch you also have GOG (which has a huge catalogue and is highly curated), and the Humble Store is still around even though sadly it has mostly become a Steam storefront these days. Add to that other publisher-specific distribution platforms and the landscape is hardly as bereft of choice as the smartphone/tablet app distribution ecossystem. Note: I do wish all of these people's official clients supported Linux.
  - lghh 6y ago
    They have a huge marketshare, but I don't see how they have a monopoly. For example, some of the largest games in the world don't go through Steam (Fortnite, Overwatch, LoL) and the indie scene outside of Steam is popular and successful through DRM free or 3rd party sources such as GoG, Humble, and itch.io. I can download a .exe from a publisher's website if I really want to. How is that "almost ... a monopoly"?
    - learc83 6y ago
      The indie scene outside of Steam might arguably be called popular, but if revenue is a marker success, it certainly isn't successful.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    Valve, the least anti-competitive monopoly[0] I can think of. You can sell keys that work on their platform on other stores without giving them a cut. [0] If one accepts that label
tw04 6y ago
In a vacuum - sure. You have to stop viewing everything through the eyes of a technical user, they have literally billions of end-users. All of them know "internet explorer" which MS is desperately trying to get rid of. It makes absolute perfect sense to walk users through Edge when they're getting rid of the default browser that billions of people expect to be there. Were you expecting them to just get rid of the old browser and leave users in a lurch? You'd be on here blowing them up for "taking away a browser without any instructions so my grandma is calling me now" instead of whining that they made you actually acknowledge the change.
- sleepychu 6y ago
  Not sure if you have experience the unskippable ad but it was egregious. I force quit edge from task manager before it finished but I cannot uninstall Edge from the add or remove programs. I'm with you, launch a guide on how to use edge as soon as they click on the Internet Explorer icon. Please do not unset my preference of default browser, please do not make me crash your program to avoid your ad... in general why does my start bar get worse every time it changes as it lurches towards an ad display vector.
  - sk0g 6y ago
    Not being able to uninstall Edge is valid, IMO. How would the average user recover from deleting their only web browser?
    - folmar 6y ago
      Have people already lost usb drives, sd cards, bluetooth etc.?
      - sk0g 6y ago
        You're overestimating the technical aptitude of the average person. If it's not a URL or in an app store, it basically doesn't exist for a lot of people.
cocktailpeanuts 6y ago
well, on Mac Safari comes pre-installed, so it's not like there's a good alternative out there. You should remember it's in their interest to shove their own browsers down your throat. Funny enough, I guess they would get less criticism if Edge just came preinstalled like Mac does with safari.
- stetrain 6y ago
  It is installed by the update. There's still a full screen unskippable ad post-update, and an Edge setup process, and then additional reminders that you might want to make Edge your default browser. The prevalence of popups and other notifications in Windows designed to drive user engagement with a specific product / feature / team has been increasingly noticeable lately, while actual productivity features like searching your local files and applications have been gummed up by web results instead. I still use Windows on a daily basis since Visual Studio is the best tool for the work I do and Windows is the best platform for PC games, but they do plenty to exercise their leverage as the platform owner.
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
Try using Gmail from Edge and you'll understand why they do this. Google is even more aggressive pushing Chrome than they are with pushing Edge. https://twitter.com/ocdtrekkie/status/1045133702962040832?s=21 https://twitter.com/ocdtrekkie/status/1045133702962040832?s=...
holtalanm 6y ago
it must be tiring viewing the world through such cynical eyes.
- Fiveplus 6y ago
  Some people thrive on negativity and pessimism :)
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Devil's advocate but is that really so bad? You see it as plastering unwanted Microsoft Edge everywhere, where my grandparents are just glad to have a modern browser that's easy to find. And none of these lock-in measures mean shit. If Microsoft is providing a service that people want/need then why is that bad? They can't lock anybody in if nobody switches. People switch since they provide value.
cambalache 6y ago
Gates is the living proof you can still buy indulgences in these times. Watch out for Zuckerberg, Bezos and similar people becoming saints in 20-30 years.
- savanaly 6y ago
  I mean, the good he does in his later years is far disproportionate to the harm he did before, so that's how it should work right? No one's all good or all bad, you take the bad with the good. In the case of Bill Gates I would hope for a lot more like him which is what I hope people will one day say of me...
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Highly debatable, maybe you are very young and dont recall how Microsoft absolutely attempting to crush any competing tool, company, framework or standard with absolutely 0 remorse. Hell, they even financed the ludicrous litigation of SCO against Linux. Cool than now Gates and his partner can promote great social campaigns, with all the good-willing, free publicity and tax benefits it generates, but let's not forget there is a long trail of pain and misery behind it.
    - savanaly 6y ago
      Not saying he wasn't very bad, and it's true I wasn't around for the worst of it. But it's almost impossible to believe that it's not outweighed by the good he has done in the last couple decades, the sheer scale of which is hard to wrap my head around.
    - mnm1 6y ago
      Please. Crushing competition in the software field hardly compares to saving lives. Some estimates put the number of lives saved at over 100 million. Hell, saving one life would make up for all the business hurts Microsoft caused and more. One has to be exceptionally callous to consider businesses going out of business greater than human lives.

slezyr 6y ago

Exactly, people forget that Valve developed SteamOS after Microsoft's shenanigans, when they tried to lockout 3rd party programs i.e. build it's own "app store"

skocznymroczny 6y ago
Valve, the company that almost holds a monopoly on the PC games distribution.
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  Epic Game Store and Xbox Game Store for PC are making headway. Epic just gave away amazing games for a month or two. I got GTA5 and Civ6 for free amongst other treasures.
  - Kaze404 6y ago
    It's worth noting that Epic Games isn't really making headway into the market by providing innovation. They're just dumping money into it, making everything worse for Linux users.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      Linux is making everything worse for Linux gamers... The packaging story, the driver stories, the market share... The stores don't lose anything when a developer supports Linux, Epic's own engine supports Linux as a target The problem is the support costs don't seem to add up at all, and I fail to see why the store fronts would be to blame...
      - Kaze404 6y ago
        Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. At least not any more than I did when I used Windows. Steam has been providing support for the Linux community for years, through native ports of their games, explicitly selling Linux ports on their store, and just making sure their client works on Linux as well. This isn't to mention their actual innovations such as the Steam Controller, Steam In-home Streaming, Steam Remote Play, and even Proton. In contrast, we have Epic Games who, besides adding nothing to the market besides a bunch of free games (which is likely going to end when/if they feel like they have a good enough share), actively killed the Linux version of Rocket League when they purchased the game. I appreciate Epic Games for the Unreal engine, but if this is how they want to get a share of the PC game store market, they're not getting a dime from me.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        > Really? I've had pretty much no issues playing video games on Linux for the past 2 years. Yes, really. This just sounds like the standard Linux Desktop evangelist "Works for me! (TM)". Take this case [0], where in it is claimed that support requests for Linux were vastly disproportionate to the number of Linux users. Linux has huge problems as a platform due to its fragmentary and ever-changing nature combined with its near-total disregard (in userland) for backwards compatibility. People have been screaming this at the community for the better part of a decade and a half (including Linus himself!) and mostly falling on deaf ears. Which is not to say that one should support Epic if you do happen to care about gaming on Linux. Quite the opposite, as Valve has done more than anyone[1] to try and make it work. [0] https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760 [1] With the exception of the entire WINE project in general
- Kye 6y ago
  I'm hopeful the success of Itch.io's latest bundle will help get more people to look outside Steam. https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality $8 million isn't much next to Steam, but it's a lot in a world where Steam is the default when people think of PC game stores.
- pteraspidomorph 6y ago
  While it's true that Steam has a lot of critical mass, there are several viable alternatives for distribution in a vacuum (whether publishers and developers use them or not doesn't mean they aren't there). In addition to the EGS and Itch you also have GOG (which has a huge catalogue and is highly curated), and the Humble Store is still around even though sadly it has mostly become a Steam storefront these days. Add to that other publisher-specific distribution platforms and the landscape is hardly as bereft of choice as the smartphone/tablet app distribution ecossystem. Note: I do wish all of these people's official clients supported Linux.
- lghh 6y ago
  They have a huge marketshare, but I don't see how they have a monopoly. For example, some of the largest games in the world don't go through Steam (Fortnite, Overwatch, LoL) and the indie scene outside of Steam is popular and successful through DRM free or 3rd party sources such as GoG, Humble, and itch.io. I can download a .exe from a publisher's website if I really want to. How is that "almost ... a monopoly"?
  - learc83 6y ago
    The indie scene outside of Steam might arguably be called popular, but if revenue is a marker success, it certainly isn't successful.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Valve, the least anti-competitive monopoly[0] I can think of. You can sell keys that work on their platform on other stores without giving them a cut. [0] If one accepts that label

tw04 6y ago

In a vacuum - sure. You have to stop viewing everything through the eyes of a technical user, they have literally billions of end-users. All of them know "internet explorer" which MS is desperately trying to get rid of. It makes absolute perfect sense to walk users through Edge when they're getting rid of the default browser that billions of people expect to be there. Were you expecting them to just get rid of the old browser and leave users in a lurch? You'd be on here blowing them up for "taking away a browser without any instructions so my grandma is calling me now" instead of whining that they made you actually acknowledge the change.

sleepychu 6y ago
Not sure if you have experience the unskippable ad but it was egregious. I force quit edge from task manager before it finished but I cannot uninstall Edge from the add or remove programs. I'm with you, launch a guide on how to use edge as soon as they click on the Internet Explorer icon. Please do not unset my preference of default browser, please do not make me crash your program to avoid your ad... in general why does my start bar get worse every time it changes as it lurches towards an ad display vector.
- sk0g 6y ago
  Not being able to uninstall Edge is valid, IMO. How would the average user recover from deleting their only web browser?
  - folmar 6y ago
    Have people already lost usb drives, sd cards, bluetooth etc.?
    - sk0g 6y ago
      You're overestimating the technical aptitude of the average person. If it's not a URL or in an app store, it basically doesn't exist for a lot of people.

cocktailpeanuts 6y ago

well, on Mac Safari comes pre-installed, so it's not like there's a good alternative out there. You should remember it's in their interest to shove their own browsers down your throat. Funny enough, I guess they would get less criticism if Edge just came preinstalled like Mac does with safari.

stetrain 6y ago
It is installed by the update. There's still a full screen unskippable ad post-update, and an Edge setup process, and then additional reminders that you might want to make Edge your default browser. The prevalence of popups and other notifications in Windows designed to drive user engagement with a specific product / feature / team has been increasingly noticeable lately, while actual productivity features like searching your local files and applications have been gummed up by web results instead. I still use Windows on a daily basis since Visual Studio is the best tool for the work I do and Windows is the best platform for PC games, but they do plenty to exercise their leverage as the platform owner.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

Try using Gmail from Edge and you'll understand why they do this. Google is even more aggressive pushing Chrome than they are with pushing Edge. https://twitter.com/ocdtrekkie/status/1045133702962040832?s=21 https://twitter.com/ocdtrekkie/status/1045133702962040832?s=...

holtalanm 6y ago

it must be tiring viewing the world through such cynical eyes.

Fiveplus 6y ago
Some people thrive on negativity and pessimism :)

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

Devil's advocate but is that really so bad? You see it as plastering unwanted Microsoft Edge everywhere, where my grandparents are just glad to have a modern browser that's easy to find. And none of these lock-in measures mean shit. If Microsoft is providing a service that people want/need then why is that bad? They can't lock anybody in if nobody switches. People switch since they provide value.

cambalache 6y ago

Gates is the living proof you can still buy indulgences in these times. Watch out for Zuckerberg, Bezos and similar people becoming saints in 20-30 years.

savanaly 6y ago
I mean, the good he does in his later years is far disproportionate to the harm he did before, so that's how it should work right? No one's all good or all bad, you take the bad with the good. In the case of Bill Gates I would hope for a lot more like him which is what I hope people will one day say of me...
- cambalache 6y ago
  Highly debatable, maybe you are very young and dont recall how Microsoft absolutely attempting to crush any competing tool, company, framework or standard with absolutely 0 remorse. Hell, they even financed the ludicrous litigation of SCO against Linux. Cool than now Gates and his partner can promote great social campaigns, with all the good-willing, free publicity and tax benefits it generates, but let's not forget there is a long trail of pain and misery behind it.
  - savanaly 6y ago
    Not saying he wasn't very bad, and it's true I wasn't around for the worst of it. But it's almost impossible to believe that it's not outweighed by the good he has done in the last couple decades, the sheer scale of which is hard to wrap my head around.
  - mnm1 6y ago
    Please. Crushing competition in the software field hardly compares to saving lives. Some estimates put the number of lives saved at over 100 million. Hell, saving one life would make up for all the business hurts Microsoft caused and more. One has to be exceptionally callous to consider businesses going out of business greater than human lives.