4 ms·

I think only developers care about rendering speed like that. Most people are happy if the page loads in reasonable amount of time. UX people probably know what

I think only developers care about rendering speed like that. Most people are happy if the page loads in reasonable amount of time. UX people probably know what that means exactly.

ketzo 6y ago
Rule of thumb I’ve heard is, in order to feel “natural”, you should be at: - 10ms response time for interactions (scroll, click, entering text) - 100ms for in-page context switch (changing tabs in a dashboard, loading the next picture, etc.) - 1000ms for page load these are obviously rough guidelines — page load in particular is obviously gonna depend on your user’s internet speed if you have any kind of media — but they’re helpful when thinking about “reasonable”
bigiain 6y ago
What do you base that thinking on? Amazon, Google, Walmart, Mozilla, and Yahoo all have numbers that say otherwise. "Amazon and others found that removing 100 milliseconds of latency improves sales by 1%." I'm 100% sure there are people who care about 1% differences in sales, and the fact that has been rediscovered independently by different organisations shows that "people" at least "aren't happy" with very small increases in page load times, at least when making purchase decisions. (Whether that extends to people reading your latest blog post or endless scrolling your social media site's newfeed is a reasonable question, which I'm not sure 've got a good enough handle on to have an opinion worth sharing.) (From an earlier HN submission today: https://instant.page/ https://instant.page/ - click the [1] link n that page after that "Amazon and others found that removing 100 milliseconds of latency improves sales by 1%." sentence for sources.)
- imtringued 6y ago
  I don't think rerendering an entire webpage on the server side every time a new chat message arrives is a good idea. There might be people that misuse SPAs when server side rendering is the better choice but SPAs clearly have use cases that are not possible with just HTML.
  - bigiain 6y ago
    > I don't think rerendering an entire webpage on the server side every time a new chat message arrives is a good idea. Sure, but that's pretty much cherry picked whataboutism when the parent comment we're talking about said: "Most people are happy if the page loads in reasonable amount of time". So apart from people writing chat messaging widgets for websites, do you have data to contradict the conclusions about webpage load times and rates of change of user behaviour that can be obviously drawn from the Google/Amazon/Walmart/Mozilla/Yahoo data?
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  a 1% increase in sales and most people not caring are not definitely incompatible viewpoints. That said I am definitely one of the people for whom it does matter.
hawski 6y ago
If everyone has only shit sandwiches people won't say they don't like shit sandwiches, but just don't enjoy sandwiches in general. Then when they try a ham sandwich for the first time they will tell that this one is better and they prefer it to others. Modern web is serving people mostly with nice looking shit sandwiches.

I think only developers care about rendering speed like that. Most people are happy if the page loads in reasonable amount of time. UX people probably know what that means exactly.

ketzo 6y ago

Rule of thumb I’ve heard is, in order to feel “natural”, you should be at: - 10ms response time for interactions (scroll, click, entering text) - 100ms for in-page context switch (changing tabs in a dashboard, loading the next picture, etc.) - 1000ms for page load these are obviously rough guidelines — page load in particular is obviously gonna depend on your user’s internet speed if you have any kind of media — but they’re helpful when thinking about “reasonable”

bigiain 6y ago

What do you base that thinking on? Amazon, Google, Walmart, Mozilla, and Yahoo all have numbers that say otherwise. "Amazon and others found that removing 100 milliseconds of latency improves sales by 1%." I'm 100% sure there are people who care about 1% differences in sales, and the fact that has been rediscovered independently by different organisations shows that "people" at least "aren't happy" with very small increases in page load times, at least when making purchase decisions. (Whether that extends to people reading your latest blog post or endless scrolling your social media site's newfeed is a reasonable question, which I'm not sure 've got a good enough handle on to have an opinion worth sharing.) (From an earlier HN submission today: https://instant.page/ https://instant.page/ - click the [1] link n that page after that "Amazon and others found that removing 100 milliseconds of latency improves sales by 1%." sentence for sources.)

imtringued 6y ago
I don't think rerendering an entire webpage on the server side every time a new chat message arrives is a good idea. There might be people that misuse SPAs when server side rendering is the better choice but SPAs clearly have use cases that are not possible with just HTML.
- bigiain 6y ago
  > I don't think rerendering an entire webpage on the server side every time a new chat message arrives is a good idea. Sure, but that's pretty much cherry picked whataboutism when the parent comment we're talking about said: "Most people are happy if the page loads in reasonable amount of time". So apart from people writing chat messaging widgets for websites, do you have data to contradict the conclusions about webpage load times and rates of change of user behaviour that can be obviously drawn from the Google/Amazon/Walmart/Mozilla/Yahoo data?
bryanrasmussen 6y ago
a 1% increase in sales and most people not caring are not definitely incompatible viewpoints. That said I am definitely one of the people for whom it does matter.

hawski 6y ago

If everyone has only shit sandwiches people won't say they don't like shit sandwiches, but just don't enjoy sandwiches in general. Then when they try a ham sandwich for the first time they will tell that this one is better and they prefer it to others. Modern web is serving people mostly with nice looking shit sandwiches.