6 ms·

There might be other examples, but Basecamp doesn't fit. Most Basecamp users don't pay for Basecamp, a company does. It is like Jira, individual users don't pay

There might be other examples, but Basecamp doesn't fit. Most Basecamp users don't pay for Basecamp, a company does. It is like Jira, individual users don't pay for it. Basecamp also has a limited free plan, as does Jira Cloud. Hey is currently only for individuals, there is no free option, every user must pay. (I'm not defending Apple taking a cut of subscriptions. Just pointing out a difference.)

josho 6y ago
I think you nailed it. All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. While the apps that target businesses do not. It seems Apple is enforcing their rules to selectively target consumer oriented apps. Which, from a consumer point of view I appreciate it. I like Apple subscriptions. However, for the businesses selling the 30% cut is hard to stomach.
- ac29 6y ago
  > All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. Netflix doesn't.
  - josho 6y ago
    Netflix has in app purchases, but you are right. Their billing faq says it is for grandfathered accounts only.
  - xlii 6y ago
    I don’t think it’s fair to use Netflix as an example. Netflix is big enough to make their own rules. We don’t see internal business arrangements but I wouldn’t be surprised if there would be flat fee between Apple and Netflix to settle that. Hey is trying to do just exact same thing but surfing on the verbosity and not business power per se.
    - KiwiJohnno 6y ago
      Isn't that exactly the problem here though? A big business like, say netflix has enough clout to get what they want. A smaller business or an individual has no option but to get screwed by apple because they have no power. Shouldn't we be fighting for a level playing field?
      - xlii 6y ago
        That depends on ones philosophy. It's a driver vs passenger issue. Big companies such as Netflix, Disney etc. are drivers, they have impact on the user base. If Netflix stopped working on Apple's devices we would see huge outflow of users. Hey on the other hand is a passenger. Sure, they might have 50k users in the queue, but them not being on Apple's platforms will probably shrink this number significantly. It's unlikely that Android users will switch to Apple because of the Hey experience. From that it boils down to personal views. If one thinks that driver should have the same amount of power as passenger this scenario is upsetting. Yet this is not universal view and I'd argue that the opposite view is the "norm". We have celebrities who can get more while spending less, specialists in the fields who have a lot of bonuses average Joe doesn't and well known businesspeople who have access to business which are out of reach. Do you imagine having 1.8b$ debt ? And yet Donald Trump was in that position long before he became POTUS. Hey is exercising the same stuff. They want to become celebrity to slide. They don't fight for the change of rules. They fight for Hey to be approved.
        paul_f 6y ago
        And this is why anti-trust laws exist.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  Hey is taking $10/month. With $7/month revenue going to them they will still be the most expensive email app available, so I don't see why it would be so hard to stomach.
  - odensc 6y ago
    $99/year != $10/month. It's $8.25/month. Also something like Fastmail is $9/month (or $90/year) with 100GB of storage (which is what HEY provides) - so it's actually pretty competitive pricing.
    - xiphias2 6y ago
      Sure, $8.25/month, but for fastmail you just picked the most expensive option that most people don't need. $5 is standard pricing.
Hamuko 6y ago
I've yet to see where that distinction is codified in the rules.

josho 6y ago

I think you nailed it. All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. While the apps that target businesses do not. It seems Apple is enforcing their rules to selectively target consumer oriented apps. Which, from a consumer point of view I appreciate it. I like Apple subscriptions. However, for the businesses selling the 30% cut is hard to stomach.

ac29 6y ago
> All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. Netflix doesn't.
- josho 6y ago
  Netflix has in app purchases, but you are right. Their billing faq says it is for grandfathered accounts only.
- xlii 6y ago
  I don’t think it’s fair to use Netflix as an example. Netflix is big enough to make their own rules. We don’t see internal business arrangements but I wouldn’t be surprised if there would be flat fee between Apple and Netflix to settle that. Hey is trying to do just exact same thing but surfing on the verbosity and not business power per se.
  - KiwiJohnno 6y ago
    Isn't that exactly the problem here though? A big business like, say netflix has enough clout to get what they want. A smaller business or an individual has no option but to get screwed by apple because they have no power. Shouldn't we be fighting for a level playing field?
    - xlii 6y ago
      That depends on ones philosophy. It's a driver vs passenger issue. Big companies such as Netflix, Disney etc. are drivers, they have impact on the user base. If Netflix stopped working on Apple's devices we would see huge outflow of users. Hey on the other hand is a passenger. Sure, they might have 50k users in the queue, but them not being on Apple's platforms will probably shrink this number significantly. It's unlikely that Android users will switch to Apple because of the Hey experience. From that it boils down to personal views. If one thinks that driver should have the same amount of power as passenger this scenario is upsetting. Yet this is not universal view and I'd argue that the opposite view is the "norm". We have celebrities who can get more while spending less, specialists in the fields who have a lot of bonuses average Joe doesn't and well known businesspeople who have access to business which are out of reach. Do you imagine having 1.8b$ debt ? And yet Donald Trump was in that position long before he became POTUS. Hey is exercising the same stuff. They want to become celebrity to slide. They don't fight for the change of rules. They fight for Hey to be approved.
      - paul_f 6y ago
        And this is why anti-trust laws exist.
xiphias2 6y ago
Hey is taking $10/month. With $7/month revenue going to them they will still be the most expensive email app available, so I don't see why it would be so hard to stomach.
- odensc 6y ago
  $99/year != $10/month. It's $8.25/month. Also something like Fastmail is $9/month (or $90/year) with 100GB of storage (which is what HEY provides) - so it's actually pretty competitive pricing.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    Sure, $8.25/month, but for fastmail you just picked the most expensive option that most people don't need. $5 is standard pricing.

Hamuko 6y ago

I've yet to see where that distinction is codified in the rules.