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What's infuriating is Apple's inconsistency. Some apps offer subscriptions outside of the app store and are still there (including Basecamp!)

by ipsum2 6y ago

outworlder 6y ago
EDIT: Having deployed a few apps in the past which required login and not being harassed, I thought something else was going on. This seems to be an unspoken policy change. I'm joining the outrage bandwagon now. > What's infuriating is Apple's inconsistency. Some apps offer subscriptions outside of the app store and are still there (including Basecamp!) That doesn't violate guidelines. Unless your app takes users outside of the app store to purchase stuff(including the subscription itself) without in app purchases. Having an app requiring login is ok. It doesn't matter that the login is protecting a paid service.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >Unless your app takes users outside of the app store to purchase stuff(including the subscription itself) without in app purchases. Where did Hey take users outside of the app?
  - outworlder 6y ago
    'Hey' itself may not be doing this right now, I don't know. I was referring to: > 3.1.1 In-App Purchase: If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, etc. Apps and their metadata may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than in-app purchase.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      This isn’t true for most of the OTT streaming cable TV apps. They all require subscriptions.
      - jpalomaki 6y ago
        There’s a special clause for this type of ”reader” apps and it allows external subscriptions. ”3.1.3(a) “Reader” Apps: Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video, access to professional databases, VoIP, cloud storage, and approved services such as classroom management apps), provided that you agree not to directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods are not designed to discourage use of in-app purchase.” Looks like for example Netflix app does even show a link to their registration page. You can only login to existing account.
    - slenk 6y ago
      Hmm...I thought Netflix on an iPhone told you that you had to go to the website to actually sign up. I don't have one to test it though.
- agentdrtran 6y ago
  > Unless your app takes users outside of the app store to purchase stuff(including the subscription itself) without in app purchases Hey doesn't do this and DHH was very explicit in the many steps they took not to step on this rule.
- jollins 6y ago
  To clarify, Hey does provide only a login, and no outside linking (or reference to outside payment, as Apple requires). Apple is now requiring that in-app-purchases must exist for "consumer apps" that aren't "readers", based on a changed interpretation of existing rules. If the above sounds ambiguous to anyone reading this, that's the issue.
antoncohen 6y ago
There might be other examples, but Basecamp doesn't fit. Most Basecamp users don't pay for Basecamp, a company does. It is like Jira, individual users don't pay for it. Basecamp also has a limited free plan, as does Jira Cloud. Hey is currently only for individuals, there is no free option, every user must pay. (I'm not defending Apple taking a cut of subscriptions. Just pointing out a difference.)
- josho 6y ago
  I think you nailed it. All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. While the apps that target businesses do not. It seems Apple is enforcing their rules to selectively target consumer oriented apps. Which, from a consumer point of view I appreciate it. I like Apple subscriptions. However, for the businesses selling the 30% cut is hard to stomach.
  - ac29 6y ago
    > All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. Netflix doesn't.
    - josho 6y ago
      Netflix has in app purchases, but you are right. Their billing faq says it is for grandfathered accounts only.
    - xlii 6y ago
      I don’t think it’s fair to use Netflix as an example. Netflix is big enough to make their own rules. We don’t see internal business arrangements but I wouldn’t be surprised if there would be flat fee between Apple and Netflix to settle that. Hey is trying to do just exact same thing but surfing on the verbosity and not business power per se.
      - KiwiJohnno 6y ago
        Isn't that exactly the problem here though? A big business like, say netflix has enough clout to get what they want. A smaller business or an individual has no option but to get screwed by apple because they have no power. Shouldn't we be fighting for a level playing field?

What's infuriating is Apple's inconsistency. Some apps offer subscriptions outside of the app store and are still there (including Basecamp!)

by ipsum2 6y ago

What's infuriating is Apple's inconsistency. Some apps offer subscriptions outside of the app store and are still there (including Basecamp!)

outworlder 6y ago

EDIT: Having deployed a few apps in the past which required login and not being harassed, I thought something else was going on. This seems to be an unspoken policy change. I'm joining the outrage bandwagon now. > What's infuriating is Apple's inconsistency. Some apps offer subscriptions outside of the app store and are still there (including Basecamp!) That doesn't violate guidelines. Unless your app takes users outside of the app store to purchase stuff(including the subscription itself) without in app purchases. Having an app requiring login is ok. It doesn't matter that the login is protecting a paid service.

Hamuko 6y ago
>Unless your app takes users outside of the app store to purchase stuff(including the subscription itself) without in app purchases. Where did Hey take users outside of the app?
- outworlder 6y ago
  'Hey' itself may not be doing this right now, I don't know. I was referring to: > 3.1.1 In-App Purchase: If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, etc. Apps and their metadata may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than in-app purchase.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    This isn’t true for most of the OTT streaming cable TV apps. They all require subscriptions.
    - jpalomaki 6y ago
      There’s a special clause for this type of ”reader” apps and it allows external subscriptions. ”3.1.3(a) “Reader” Apps: Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video, access to professional databases, VoIP, cloud storage, and approved services such as classroom management apps), provided that you agree not to directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods are not designed to discourage use of in-app purchase.” Looks like for example Netflix app does even show a link to their registration page. You can only login to existing account.
  - slenk 6y ago
    Hmm...I thought Netflix on an iPhone told you that you had to go to the website to actually sign up. I don't have one to test it though.
agentdrtran 6y ago
> Unless your app takes users outside of the app store to purchase stuff(including the subscription itself) without in app purchases Hey doesn't do this and DHH was very explicit in the many steps they took not to step on this rule.
jollins 6y ago
To clarify, Hey does provide only a login, and no outside linking (or reference to outside payment, as Apple requires). Apple is now requiring that in-app-purchases must exist for "consumer apps" that aren't "readers", based on a changed interpretation of existing rules. If the above sounds ambiguous to anyone reading this, that's the issue.

antoncohen 6y ago

There might be other examples, but Basecamp doesn't fit. Most Basecamp users don't pay for Basecamp, a company does. It is like Jira, individual users don't pay for it. Basecamp also has a limited free plan, as does Jira Cloud. Hey is currently only for individuals, there is no free option, every user must pay. (I'm not defending Apple taking a cut of subscriptions. Just pointing out a difference.)

josho 6y ago
I think you nailed it. All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. While the apps that target businesses do not. It seems Apple is enforcing their rules to selectively target consumer oriented apps. Which, from a consumer point of view I appreciate it. I like Apple subscriptions. However, for the businesses selling the 30% cut is hard to stomach.
- ac29 6y ago
  > All the consumer subscription apps I could think of offer in app purchase. Netflix doesn't.
  - josho 6y ago
    Netflix has in app purchases, but you are right. Their billing faq says it is for grandfathered accounts only.
  - xlii 6y ago
    I don’t think it’s fair to use Netflix as an example. Netflix is big enough to make their own rules. We don’t see internal business arrangements but I wouldn’t be surprised if there would be flat fee between Apple and Netflix to settle that. Hey is trying to do just exact same thing but surfing on the verbosity and not business power per se.
    - KiwiJohnno 6y ago
      Isn't that exactly the problem here though? A big business like, say netflix has enough clout to get what they want. A smaller business or an individual has no option but to get screwed by apple because they have no power. Shouldn't we be fighting for a level playing field?