6 ms·

How is that not anti-competitive? Microsoft lost the browser wars because of the technical and legal restrictions to uninstall internet explorer and install ot

How is that not anti-competitive? Microsoft lost the browser wars because of the technical and legal restrictions to uninstall internet explorer and install other applications. How is this not a similar restriction where I cannot install whatever application I want?

twoodfin 6y ago
Apple doesn’t control 90%+ of the smartphone market. Windows did for PCs.
- gfxgirl 6y ago
  Yep, only ~60% https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united... Monopoly laws are country specific. It doesn't matter if Apple doesn't have a monopoly in the world. It only matter that they have one in a specific country and that that country decides to enforce.
  - adventured 6y ago
    Market share doesn't determine whether a company has a monopoly in the US market. That said, if that's what did determine it, Apple would be in the clear. Android has the majority share of the market in the US and has for a long time. 51.8% as of September 2019, to Apple's 47.4%, according to: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held... And 46% for Apple as of the first quarter of 2020, according to: https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... The statcounter.com site you linked to is a notoriously mediocre resource if you're looking for data that is accurate and representative of a market.
    - gfxgirl 6y ago
      Android is not a phone vendor. Samsumg, LG, Sony, Motorola are phone vendors. Wrong comparison.
- erikerikson 6y ago
  No one's arguing about monopoly over the smartphone market. They're talking about Apple's monopoly over iPhone app installation sources.
- mortenjorck 6y ago
  The parent comment is not asking whether or not Apple has a monopoly. The question is whether or not Apple's behavior is anticompetitive, which, incidentally, is exactly the question the law asks. Perhaps because of the Microsoft case and its incredibly high profile, there is an extremely widespread misconception that the scope of antitrust law is limited to monopolies as Microsoft had in the 1990s. This is false. If you're not familiar with the difference between the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 and the Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914, the former is the one that deals with monopolies. The latter, however, deals with a variety of anticompetitive practices that do not require a monopoly, such as predatory pricing. Being one of the world's few trillion-dollar companies, Apple has wagered, successfully thus far, that no one will challenge its practices in court. Perhaps if Basecamp can rally Spotify and Netflix together, that will change.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  Google has been fined for the same thing on Android[1]. The reason Apple gets a pass is more or less a loophole in the law. They have no manufacturing partners, no oems, nothing. They maintain 100% control over their hardware and software. If Apple did have third party phone vendors, the way they manage iOS would absolutely earn them some fines. But they can't be 'anticompetitive' if they create such a walled garden that they don't even compete with anyone. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/07/18/630030673/eu-hits-google-with-5-billion-fine-for-pushing-apps-on-android-users https://www.npr.org/2018/07/18/630030673/eu-hits-google-with...

twoodfin 6y ago

Apple doesn’t control 90%+ of the smartphone market. Windows did for PCs.

gfxgirl 6y ago
Yep, only ~60% https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united... Monopoly laws are country specific. It doesn't matter if Apple doesn't have a monopoly in the world. It only matter that they have one in a specific country and that that country decides to enforce.
- adventured 6y ago
  Market share doesn't determine whether a company has a monopoly in the US market. That said, if that's what did determine it, Apple would be in the clear. Android has the majority share of the market in the US and has for a long time. 51.8% as of September 2019, to Apple's 47.4%, according to: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held... And 46% for Apple as of the first quarter of 2020, according to: https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... The statcounter.com site you linked to is a notoriously mediocre resource if you're looking for data that is accurate and representative of a market.
  - gfxgirl 6y ago
    Android is not a phone vendor. Samsumg, LG, Sony, Motorola are phone vendors. Wrong comparison.
erikerikson 6y ago
No one's arguing about monopoly over the smartphone market. They're talking about Apple's monopoly over iPhone app installation sources.
mortenjorck 6y ago
The parent comment is not asking whether or not Apple has a monopoly. The question is whether or not Apple's behavior is anticompetitive, which, incidentally, is exactly the question the law asks. Perhaps because of the Microsoft case and its incredibly high profile, there is an extremely widespread misconception that the scope of antitrust law is limited to monopolies as Microsoft had in the 1990s. This is false. If you're not familiar with the difference between the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 and the Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914, the former is the one that deals with monopolies. The latter, however, deals with a variety of anticompetitive practices that do not require a monopoly, such as predatory pricing. Being one of the world's few trillion-dollar companies, Apple has wagered, successfully thus far, that no one will challenge its practices in court. Perhaps if Basecamp can rally Spotify and Netflix together, that will change.
dahfizz 6y ago
Google has been fined for the same thing on Android[1]. The reason Apple gets a pass is more or less a loophole in the law. They have no manufacturing partners, no oems, nothing. They maintain 100% control over their hardware and software. If Apple did have third party phone vendors, the way they manage iOS would absolutely earn them some fines. But they can't be 'anticompetitive' if they create such a walled garden that they don't even compete with anyone. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/07/18/630030673/eu-hits-google-with-5-billion-fine-for-pushing-apps-on-android-users https://www.npr.org/2018/07/18/630030673/eu-hits-google-with...