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I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then whe

I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human. But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techcrunch (I was in 2017), where you have clearly introduced yourself. You get off-stage, they greet your colleague and ask him the questions as if he was on stage. I was often in the interview room waiting for my interviewer, only to have him show up, and tell me I must be in the wrong room. A simple "Hey are you XYZ?" could have avoided this frustration. I've written an article about my experience working as a black developer, I'll post it here in the near future. You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people.

bsder 6y ago
Dear lord, do people not just simply say: "Hi, I'm <my name>. And you are?" What is wrong with people? That's just basic courtesy.
- mc32 6y ago
  When I’m not sure who is who, I’ll ask “Which one of you is so and so” as I scan the multiple of people. People should use blank slates in more situations than they do. It’s not all upside as some people take you to be slow for “not making connections,” but on the other hand you don’t make bad assumptions.
  - steve_taylor 6y ago
    Solid advice. I always lookup people on LinkedIn before meeting them for the first time, so I usually don’t even have to ask.
js2 6y ago
I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized what it must feel like to be a Christian in America until I visited Israel for the first time and had a sense of being among "my people", which didn't really make any sense because I'm not Israeli, but at the same time it felt comforting being among so many Jews in a greater way than when I'm at temple.) Of course, unless I announce I am Jewish, I know I'm not being judged by it. I can only imagine how difficult it is that whenever you are slighted, you don't know for certain whether it is due to being black. It must be very hard not to start assuming that it's always the reason. I'll watch for your future post. I look forward to reading it.
- gfxgirl 6y ago
  Where do you live? I have no idea what it's like to be Jewish but I have Jewish friends and have had Jewish bosses. I couldn't tell them apart from any other white people in the area. If they hadn't told me they were Jewish I'd never have known nor cared. I certainly didn't treat them different. At what point are we all just different? I can't meet people that are into my particular hobby. I also go to clubs and bars from time to time and never feel like "these are my people". Even going to game dev events (since I do game dev) a rarely feel like "these are my people".
  - SenHeng 6y ago
    I think it's very subtle stuff, an example may be having kosher food being the default. When living in Singapore, I used to make the faux pas of mixing together Muslim food (no pork), Indian food (no beef) and Chinese food (lots of pork/beef) together.
    - eru 6y ago
      You meant you mixed them on your plate? Or you just confused them? I don't think the former is faux pas. Just a bit weird. The latter seems like a hard mistake to make (I live in Singapore), but I guess it's possible, especially if you have no local guidance.
tootie 6y ago
People really should know better. It's not that hard to just be polite and avoid assumption. But I think you're doing the right thing by giving the benefit of the doubt. Whatever the reason for their behavior, a helpful and non-judgmental correction is more likely to get them to reevaluate their prejudices and maybe do better next time. As much right as you may have to be indignant it would only make them defensive.
- ibudiallo 6y ago
  There is a passage in Catch-22 where Colonel Cathcart accidentally makes a sexual reference when speaking with the chaplain. At first he is embarrassed. But the more he thinks about it, the more he gets pissed at the chaplain for being present when he embarrassed himself. And when he remembers that the chaplain is only his subordinate, he gets furious. The chaplain suffers the colonel's wrath because... For me, working in tech feels like being the chaplain.
dgb23 6y ago
> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I believe these painful interactions would be much less common if tech culture were more diverse in the first place. Women share a similar fate. Whenever I hear some of these stories I cringe. Some of them are surprising/shocking even. But this seems important. Hearing those stories including the ones you mentioned. Not necessarily to point fingers (although sometimes we should) but rather to fight this common, widespread ignorance.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  > This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I think this is the problem. Say a black guy with gold teeth, tons of tattoos and colorful dreadlocks and a middle aged white guy walk in. One of them is a rapper. Who is it? Based on experience, most people will certainly assume the black guy is. What if it turns out it’s the white guy? Are they unconsciously racist against white people or are they just following experience-based heuristics? Would they have decided differently if rappers were commonly middle aged white guys? I say for sure. If black people in tech become more common this particular problem will solve itself.
  - eloisant 6y ago
    It certainly makes sense to assume (in your head) the black guy is a rapper, and the white guy is a tech CEO. But when you know how it makes people feel when you make your assumption visible, you understand the need to act like anyone could be the CEO, the developer, etc. Same goes for women devs who at tech conferences who are too often "assumed" to be girlfriends, recruiters or other non-tech participants. Yes, the problem will solve itself if black people in tech become more common - but: 1. it's not going to get solved if we make them feel out of place in tech by always assuming they're "the wrong guy". 2. let's try not to make the life harder to the very few black people (and other minorities) who are already in tech?
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      I’m not arguing that you should make your assumptions visible (I agree it’s better to just ask), I’m just saying racism isn’t the root cause here and any attempts to fix this issue assuming that it is are going to be ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. We should work on fixing the actual issue.
DenisM 6y ago
Bummer, man. Did you ever find any way to control the outcome, even if partially?
lappet 6y ago
Man, I feel you, I have worked in the valley for 10 years and am yet to work closely with a black developer. I have felt the loneliness at times - I seem to oscillate between all white teams and teams with many Asians (I am Indian). When you are a minority in a group, I think you tend to overthink things, feel very judged, and may be put in to an uncomfortable position to speak for your community. It can be weird and I try my best to stay aware of myself in such situations. By the way, I did read your blog post "The Machine Fired me" when it first came out - it was fascinating and extremely disturbing. Hope life is more boring now!
- ibudiallo 6y ago
  > When you are a minority in a group, I think you tend to overthink things, feel very judged, and may be put in to an uncomfortable position to speak for your community. It can be weird and I try my best to stay aware of myself in such situations. You nailed it. At times, I definitely felt like I had become my own worst critique. Before I make a commit, I feel the weight of an invisible black committee that I represent and speak on behalf of. > Hope life is more boring now! Oh, how I wish!
  - kls 6y ago
    > I feel the weight of an invisible black committee that I represent and speak on behalf of. I am sorry that we do this, as I now know how it makes you feel. For some perspective, many white people do this because they don't see the world from your vantage point. It would be akin to me being blind and you being able to see and me asking you what does a tree look like. We think it is an innocent question, one that only you will have perspective on and therefor we don't see the harm that it actually does. We (not all of us) see it as akin to asking a guy who can see for his personal perspective, not as asking a guy to speak for all people that can see. I have a good friend who just so happens to be black (I know that's a white thing to say but I don't know how else to express it) and he is frank with me and helped me to understand why this question is so alienating and degrading. I regret that I have been guilty of this and appreciate that I have a friend that we have very little racial barriers due to our friendship so he can check me when I do asshole things not realizing it. Apparently passing cop cars with a black friend in the car is also an asshole move, I learned that one as well so I am guilty of a few, but at least I gain perspective.
tbyehl 6y ago
> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. One of the strangest realizations I've had in my adult life is that when Silicon Valley people talk about improving workplace diversity, they don't mean black people. There are virtually no black people in Silicon Valley. Two on your team of 150 under-represents the population but not nearly as much as in places with a larger black population. Has anyone ever pitched you on Atlanta? Tech here has a long way to go to match the local demographics but being a black developer (or manager, executive, founder, VC, whatever) isn't nearly as novel. Tho, our casual and not-so-casual racism outside the workplace is probably worse than Silicon Valley.
- ibudiallo 6y ago
  I mostly know California, this is where I learned to navigate the system. People often recommend the tech scene here or there, and it is tempting to just move. But to tell you the truth, I don't want to start over. The devil you know...
  - blitmap 6y ago
    First, I wanted to say congratulations on having that Techcrunch experience! That is very cool :) I am white. I am often talking among my white colleagues who make statements like "I just want to work, I don't understand all the focus on diversity. Racism isn't something I consider when I go to work to make software." I understand this. I don't go to work trying to increase or lessen racism, it's simply not in the viewfinder. However, I've talked with some of them about how it subtley changes your perspective and erodes your peace of mind to go to work among peers you don't outwardly identify with. We hope people go to office parties and learn finer details of those they work with and bond. This doesn't always happen. What helps immediately is being able to look around the room and see people who look like you. I've been really happy to see how discussions about diversity have changed in the last 10 years. When we sit down with HR and do a workshop about diversity it is NOT about race at all. The emphasis has been on appreciating and drawing from diverse life experience from people who may appear commonplace. I've watched the language change into something more constructive and it pulls people away from simply thinking "I'm the one Asian dude in this department". I remember at my last job I started learning a fair amount of Tagalog because 3 folks around me came from the Fillipines and wanted to share awesome homecooked meals. I really valued that experience. I have always lived and worked in California. I've been cautiously optimistic seeing people grow curious about others' upbringings and cultures, especially with oversharing from outlets like Instagram. Anywho, glad to have you here, sir :)
forgot_user1234 6y ago
Why doesn't this ever happen to indian ceos. Sundar, Satya, ibm's ceo, or bazillion other companies
- churchillracist 6y ago
  It happened to Sundar. There was an incident at a tech conference where he was walking through the booths and some people started asking for selfies with him. The "booth guy" who had condescending look grabbed Sundar's nametag slightly tugging on his neck without requesting his permission to see who he was. People were shocked at how rude the physical contact was. More ought to have been made of that. That booth guy should have been at least reprimanded for doing that to anyone, let alone Google's CEO.
  - forgot_user1234 6y ago
    I haven't heard about this incident BUT it still doesn't shows why there are so many indian CEOs. I really doubt that it's the norm. Look at the numbers not the anecdotes. There are disproportionate number of Indian CEOs. It would have been impossible with racism and what not.
    - churchillracist 6y ago
      Multiple of these incidents have happened to Sundar. ""What are you, press?," asked the Samsung representative. After being let in - Pichai was inquisitive about Samsung's new smart fridge. The profile reveals similar incidents happened multiple times over at CES." "Even after looking at the name on his badge, the rep had no clue that this curious, friendly inquisitor was one of the most powerful people in technology. " https://magazine.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/spring-summer-2020/sundar-pichai-wg02-wants-to-change-your-life/ https://magazine.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/spring-summer-2020... > It would have been impossible with racism and what not. It would have been impossible with racism and what not. Please explain the reasoning of why it would have been "impossible".
      - 6y ago
tarkin2 6y ago
Do you wonder if at least a few people are nervous? Some members of my family are straight-out racist. But then a few have said they prefer not buying goods from British Indians in my hometown because they feel somehow uncomfortable, yet bode no ill-will. How the British social awkwardness relates to American culture, I don’t know, however.
jcims 6y ago
Over the past few years I've been on numerous hiring events with my company for dev/ops jobs and I would say that the percentage of candidates that were black roughly matched your team...maybe 2-3% (and most of them were not US citizens). Of the remaining i would say about half were Asians (east/west) on visas, a third were US citizens (mostly white) and the balance were mostly Europeans on visas...super rough numbers obviously. It's strange because we have a bunch of older black folks in IT roles that have been around for a long time. I've worked with quite a few black folks in my career (boring city not near the coasts) and the overall demographics are actually fair to middling (racially anyway, male/female is still a mess). New hires though? Not not so much. I don't see how we fix this overall situation without understanding what's causing that discrepancy. It's not a quick fix but personally I feel we have to do more to inspire young kids to dream about this type of career and visualize it as part of their future. Part of that is (probably?) going to be seeing folks that they can identify with in those roles. Another part is (probably?) to make that resources are available for them to test the waters and develop those skills and refine their interests. I'm white, i don't know what it's like to grow up going to school in the setting most young black kids find themselves. I went to a mostly white school in the suburbs in the midwest and it treated 'nerds' like dog shit back in the day. Something tells me the story doesn't get better in metro public schools. Pop culture really seems to hold sway in those settings, maybe some help there wouldn't hurt.
- ijpsud 6y ago
  +1 We definitely need to work on this from a "grass-roots" education-system level, but it's also a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation, because we also need to make the tech industry appealing to young black students who are in the process of forming ideas about the sort of career they want. The examples[0][1] of humiliation from the article, and the many examples from black folks in this thread don't paint a picture of an industry that is particularly appealing to a student thinking about their career options. That's if they've even considered the industry in the first place - the dearth of visible/powerful black faces in tech is very likely causing a "can't be what you can't see" effect in the minds of many young black kids. The fact that the industry is currently doing some introspection is great, but real-world, noticeable progress on these issues will probably take decades. [0] > That message hit particularly hard in 2015, when Givens and his co-founder Eric Williams, who is also Black, brought some of their employees to Churchill Downs Racetrack, home of the Kentucky Derby. They were at a VIP suite to celebrate the first big installation of one of their bartending machines. Guest after guest walked past the pair of executives to greet their White employee, offer their congratulations and ask how he got the idea for the product. The mood dimmed once the well-wishers realized their gaffes. “It went really quickly from ‘I have a drink in my hand, and I want to network’ to ‘I just want to get out of here,’” Givens recalls. [1] > His first two fundraising rounds were challenging, according to Hayes and his apparent doppelgänger, Messick. The recurring confusion about who was CEO, and the embarrassment and apologies that followed, certainly didn’t help. “I usually remember the room and the look on the face,” Hayes says. “The energy would drop dramatically.”
dheera 6y ago
"well-meaning friends—mainly other Black entrepreneurs who faced similar challenges—suggested that Givens add a White man as a co-founder." I'm not black, but I'm also not white, and I've been suggested this numerous times as well by well-meaning people after our startup not being able to fundraise for several months but some of our white-male-founded competitors had successfully raised. One friend was even joking about a "white-guy-as-a-service" to help minority startups get funded -- i.e. hire a white guy to show up to your VC pitch (or maybe pitch it for you) and your chances of funding would probably astronomically rise.
- Throwsfnabf04 6y ago
  Yeah this is real man, but products win in the end of the day, beat them, it makes the competition harder, so what? I am in the same boat, work twice as hard, racism won't give you time, this can take decades to fix. Best of luck
- hckr_news 6y ago
  This reminds me of a Nairobi-based startup who tweeted a job posting in which they were looking for a white male to join their team to act as a face for the business. I don't know if it was in jest but it was hilarious and sad.
  - dheera 6y ago
    This is basically what DJI did. Sad world but I bet they wouldn't have gained so much traction and investment if their marketing wasn't always full of white people using them (they did this right from the very beginning).
erfgh 6y ago
> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. Why do you find this lonely? Do you not like the company of people unless they are black?
- moftz 6y ago
  Being the same race as someone else is one more thing you may have in common with someone when getting to know them. It's not that every white person or every black person has had the same life experience but when trying to connect with a new group of peers, you may be subconsciously drawn to approach someone that looks more like you before you approach someone that doesn't. Humans are still very tribal animals so we should be trying to make more diverse connections to others, to be more inclusive. Diversity in this sense doesn't just mean race but can also mean different genders, age groups, faiths, socio-economic classes, personalities, and physical abilities. Making more inclusive connections (other than based on appearance) can be hard because it requires actually getting to know someone first. I'm sure the parent comment doesn't mean that they only like the company of other black people. It's more likely they feel like an outsider on their team simply due to looking different and having a different cultural upbringing than their other teammates. A more inclusive team would have likely made the parent comment not feel this way. If you were on a team of 148 people of another race and there was only one other person that was the same as you, would you feel a little out of place?
spqr233 6y ago
As another black developer I can only relate to this.
flippyhead 6y ago
My personal strategy to avoid this is to just ask the person I think is least likely to be the CEO or whatever. If you are wrong, often the recipient feels flattered.
- dynamite-ready 6y ago
  Yes, but try doing that, when the CEO has a name that clearly matches their ethnicity.
southphillyman 6y ago
>You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. Almost a decade in the industry and I have never worked with another black developer. One time I was on a team with a black project manager who use to be a developer but that's it. For all the pushback on diversity recruiting I appreciate events like Google sandbox that remind me that we do exist and present opportunities to network.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Almost a decade in the industry and I have never worked with another black developer. Working in technology in the public sector, where women and racial/ethnic minorities underrepresented in technology as a whole are generally less underepresented than is generally the case, I've worked with...two others, in a similar time frame.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
  I knew a black developer once on the job, but he was a contractor and not on my team. There's a joke in there somewhere, but I can't find it :-) I've gotten so used to it that it simply never occurs to me any more. Some companies are genuinely concerned. When I left a major corp, the VP of Software Development called me into his office and said (paraphrasing) "since you're leaving I can count on you to be honest with me. Are our diversity programs doing anything useful or are we just kidding ourselves?" The company I went to after that (another large corporation) hired a consultant to interview a set of women and minorities to try to understand how comfortable they felt in their day-to-day roles. Again, knowing the HR people there, I felt they were genuinely trying to foster a pleasant environment, but that's also the company where I came across that one black developer. Then again, I do recall travelling across the country to be my company's Expert for a deposition for a lawsuit over a project I was on and having the opposing party think I was the cab driver...

bsder 6y ago

Dear lord, do people not just simply say: "Hi, I'm <my name>. And you are?" What is wrong with people? That's just basic courtesy.

mc32 6y ago
When I’m not sure who is who, I’ll ask “Which one of you is so and so” as I scan the multiple of people. People should use blank slates in more situations than they do. It’s not all upside as some people take you to be slow for “not making connections,” but on the other hand you don’t make bad assumptions.
- steve_taylor 6y ago
  Solid advice. I always lookup people on LinkedIn before meeting them for the first time, so I usually don’t even have to ask.

js2 6y ago

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized what it must feel like to be a Christian in America until I visited Israel for the first time and had a sense of being among "my people", which didn't really make any sense because I'm not Israeli, but at the same time it felt comforting being among so many Jews in a greater way than when I'm at temple.) Of course, unless I announce I am Jewish, I know I'm not being judged by it. I can only imagine how difficult it is that whenever you are slighted, you don't know for certain whether it is due to being black. It must be very hard not to start assuming that it's always the reason. I'll watch for your future post. I look forward to reading it.

gfxgirl 6y ago
Where do you live? I have no idea what it's like to be Jewish but I have Jewish friends and have had Jewish bosses. I couldn't tell them apart from any other white people in the area. If they hadn't told me they were Jewish I'd never have known nor cared. I certainly didn't treat them different. At what point are we all just different? I can't meet people that are into my particular hobby. I also go to clubs and bars from time to time and never feel like "these are my people". Even going to game dev events (since I do game dev) a rarely feel like "these are my people".
- SenHeng 6y ago
  I think it's very subtle stuff, an example may be having kosher food being the default. When living in Singapore, I used to make the faux pas of mixing together Muslim food (no pork), Indian food (no beef) and Chinese food (lots of pork/beef) together.
  - eru 6y ago
    You meant you mixed them on your plate? Or you just confused them? I don't think the former is faux pas. Just a bit weird. The latter seems like a hard mistake to make (I live in Singapore), but I guess it's possible, especially if you have no local guidance.

tootie 6y ago

People really should know better. It's not that hard to just be polite and avoid assumption. But I think you're doing the right thing by giving the benefit of the doubt. Whatever the reason for their behavior, a helpful and non-judgmental correction is more likely to get them to reevaluate their prejudices and maybe do better next time. As much right as you may have to be indignant it would only make them defensive.

ibudiallo 6y ago
There is a passage in Catch-22 where Colonel Cathcart accidentally makes a sexual reference when speaking with the chaplain. At first he is embarrassed. But the more he thinks about it, the more he gets pissed at the chaplain for being present when he embarrassed himself. And when he remembers that the chaplain is only his subordinate, he gets furious. The chaplain suffers the colonel's wrath because... For me, working in tech feels like being the chaplain.

dgb23 6y ago

> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I believe these painful interactions would be much less common if tech culture were more diverse in the first place. Women share a similar fate. Whenever I hear some of these stories I cringe. Some of them are surprising/shocking even. But this seems important. Hearing those stories including the ones you mentioned. Not necessarily to point fingers (although sometimes we should) but rather to fight this common, widespread ignorance.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago
> This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I think this is the problem. Say a black guy with gold teeth, tons of tattoos and colorful dreadlocks and a middle aged white guy walk in. One of them is a rapper. Who is it? Based on experience, most people will certainly assume the black guy is. What if it turns out it’s the white guy? Are they unconsciously racist against white people or are they just following experience-based heuristics? Would they have decided differently if rappers were commonly middle aged white guys? I say for sure. If black people in tech become more common this particular problem will solve itself.
- eloisant 6y ago
  It certainly makes sense to assume (in your head) the black guy is a rapper, and the white guy is a tech CEO. But when you know how it makes people feel when you make your assumption visible, you understand the need to act like anyone could be the CEO, the developer, etc. Same goes for women devs who at tech conferences who are too often "assumed" to be girlfriends, recruiters or other non-tech participants. Yes, the problem will solve itself if black people in tech become more common - but: 1. it's not going to get solved if we make them feel out of place in tech by always assuming they're "the wrong guy". 2. let's try not to make the life harder to the very few black people (and other minorities) who are already in tech?
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    I’m not arguing that you should make your assumptions visible (I agree it’s better to just ask), I’m just saying racism isn’t the root cause here and any attempts to fix this issue assuming that it is are going to be ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. We should work on fixing the actual issue.

DenisM 6y ago

Bummer, man. Did you ever find any way to control the outcome, even if partially?

lappet 6y ago

Man, I feel you, I have worked in the valley for 10 years and am yet to work closely with a black developer. I have felt the loneliness at times - I seem to oscillate between all white teams and teams with many Asians (I am Indian). When you are a minority in a group, I think you tend to overthink things, feel very judged, and may be put in to an uncomfortable position to speak for your community. It can be weird and I try my best to stay aware of myself in such situations. By the way, I did read your blog post "The Machine Fired me" when it first came out - it was fascinating and extremely disturbing. Hope life is more boring now!

ibudiallo 6y ago
> When you are a minority in a group, I think you tend to overthink things, feel very judged, and may be put in to an uncomfortable position to speak for your community. It can be weird and I try my best to stay aware of myself in such situations. You nailed it. At times, I definitely felt like I had become my own worst critique. Before I make a commit, I feel the weight of an invisible black committee that I represent and speak on behalf of. > Hope life is more boring now! Oh, how I wish!
- kls 6y ago
  > I feel the weight of an invisible black committee that I represent and speak on behalf of. I am sorry that we do this, as I now know how it makes you feel. For some perspective, many white people do this because they don't see the world from your vantage point. It would be akin to me being blind and you being able to see and me asking you what does a tree look like. We think it is an innocent question, one that only you will have perspective on and therefor we don't see the harm that it actually does. We (not all of us) see it as akin to asking a guy who can see for his personal perspective, not as asking a guy to speak for all people that can see. I have a good friend who just so happens to be black (I know that's a white thing to say but I don't know how else to express it) and he is frank with me and helped me to understand why this question is so alienating and degrading. I regret that I have been guilty of this and appreciate that I have a friend that we have very little racial barriers due to our friendship so he can check me when I do asshole things not realizing it. Apparently passing cop cars with a black friend in the car is also an asshole move, I learned that one as well so I am guilty of a few, but at least I gain perspective.

tbyehl 6y ago

> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. One of the strangest realizations I've had in my adult life is that when Silicon Valley people talk about improving workplace diversity, they don't mean black people. There are virtually no black people in Silicon Valley. Two on your team of 150 under-represents the population but not nearly as much as in places with a larger black population. Has anyone ever pitched you on Atlanta? Tech here has a long way to go to match the local demographics but being a black developer (or manager, executive, founder, VC, whatever) isn't nearly as novel. Tho, our casual and not-so-casual racism outside the workplace is probably worse than Silicon Valley.

ibudiallo 6y ago
I mostly know California, this is where I learned to navigate the system. People often recommend the tech scene here or there, and it is tempting to just move. But to tell you the truth, I don't want to start over. The devil you know...
- blitmap 6y ago
  First, I wanted to say congratulations on having that Techcrunch experience! That is very cool :) I am white. I am often talking among my white colleagues who make statements like "I just want to work, I don't understand all the focus on diversity. Racism isn't something I consider when I go to work to make software." I understand this. I don't go to work trying to increase or lessen racism, it's simply not in the viewfinder. However, I've talked with some of them about how it subtley changes your perspective and erodes your peace of mind to go to work among peers you don't outwardly identify with. We hope people go to office parties and learn finer details of those they work with and bond. This doesn't always happen. What helps immediately is being able to look around the room and see people who look like you. I've been really happy to see how discussions about diversity have changed in the last 10 years. When we sit down with HR and do a workshop about diversity it is NOT about race at all. The emphasis has been on appreciating and drawing from diverse life experience from people who may appear commonplace. I've watched the language change into something more constructive and it pulls people away from simply thinking "I'm the one Asian dude in this department". I remember at my last job I started learning a fair amount of Tagalog because 3 folks around me came from the Fillipines and wanted to share awesome homecooked meals. I really valued that experience. I have always lived and worked in California. I've been cautiously optimistic seeing people grow curious about others' upbringings and cultures, especially with oversharing from outlets like Instagram. Anywho, glad to have you here, sir :)

forgot_user1234 6y ago

Why doesn't this ever happen to indian ceos. Sundar, Satya, ibm's ceo, or bazillion other companies

churchillracist 6y ago
It happened to Sundar. There was an incident at a tech conference where he was walking through the booths and some people started asking for selfies with him. The "booth guy" who had condescending look grabbed Sundar's nametag slightly tugging on his neck without requesting his permission to see who he was. People were shocked at how rude the physical contact was. More ought to have been made of that. That booth guy should have been at least reprimanded for doing that to anyone, let alone Google's CEO.
- forgot_user1234 6y ago
  I haven't heard about this incident BUT it still doesn't shows why there are so many indian CEOs. I really doubt that it's the norm. Look at the numbers not the anecdotes. There are disproportionate number of Indian CEOs. It would have been impossible with racism and what not.
  - churchillracist 6y ago
    Multiple of these incidents have happened to Sundar. ""What are you, press?," asked the Samsung representative. After being let in - Pichai was inquisitive about Samsung's new smart fridge. The profile reveals similar incidents happened multiple times over at CES." "Even after looking at the name on his badge, the rep had no clue that this curious, friendly inquisitor was one of the most powerful people in technology. " https://magazine.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/spring-summer-2020/sundar-pichai-wg02-wants-to-change-your-life/ https://magazine.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/spring-summer-2020... > It would have been impossible with racism and what not. It would have been impossible with racism and what not. Please explain the reasoning of why it would have been "impossible".
    - 6y ago

tarkin2 6y ago

Do you wonder if at least a few people are nervous? Some members of my family are straight-out racist. But then a few have said they prefer not buying goods from British Indians in my hometown because they feel somehow uncomfortable, yet bode no ill-will. How the British social awkwardness relates to American culture, I don’t know, however.

jcims 6y ago

Over the past few years I've been on numerous hiring events with my company for dev/ops jobs and I would say that the percentage of candidates that were black roughly matched your team...maybe 2-3% (and most of them were not US citizens). Of the remaining i would say about half were Asians (east/west) on visas, a third were US citizens (mostly white) and the balance were mostly Europeans on visas...super rough numbers obviously. It's strange because we have a bunch of older black folks in IT roles that have been around for a long time. I've worked with quite a few black folks in my career (boring city not near the coasts) and the overall demographics are actually fair to middling (racially anyway, male/female is still a mess). New hires though? Not not so much. I don't see how we fix this overall situation without understanding what's causing that discrepancy. It's not a quick fix but personally I feel we have to do more to inspire young kids to dream about this type of career and visualize it as part of their future. Part of that is (probably?) going to be seeing folks that they can identify with in those roles. Another part is (probably?) to make that resources are available for them to test the waters and develop those skills and refine their interests. I'm white, i don't know what it's like to grow up going to school in the setting most young black kids find themselves. I went to a mostly white school in the suburbs in the midwest and it treated 'nerds' like dog shit back in the day. Something tells me the story doesn't get better in metro public schools. Pop culture really seems to hold sway in those settings, maybe some help there wouldn't hurt.

ijpsud 6y ago
+1 We definitely need to work on this from a "grass-roots" education-system level, but it's also a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation, because we also need to make the tech industry appealing to young black students who are in the process of forming ideas about the sort of career they want. The examples[0][1] of humiliation from the article, and the many examples from black folks in this thread don't paint a picture of an industry that is particularly appealing to a student thinking about their career options. That's if they've even considered the industry in the first place - the dearth of visible/powerful black faces in tech is very likely causing a "can't be what you can't see" effect in the minds of many young black kids. The fact that the industry is currently doing some introspection is great, but real-world, noticeable progress on these issues will probably take decades. [0] > That message hit particularly hard in 2015, when Givens and his co-founder Eric Williams, who is also Black, brought some of their employees to Churchill Downs Racetrack, home of the Kentucky Derby. They were at a VIP suite to celebrate the first big installation of one of their bartending machines. Guest after guest walked past the pair of executives to greet their White employee, offer their congratulations and ask how he got the idea for the product. The mood dimmed once the well-wishers realized their gaffes. “It went really quickly from ‘I have a drink in my hand, and I want to network’ to ‘I just want to get out of here,’” Givens recalls. [1] > His first two fundraising rounds were challenging, according to Hayes and his apparent doppelgänger, Messick. The recurring confusion about who was CEO, and the embarrassment and apologies that followed, certainly didn’t help. “I usually remember the room and the look on the face,” Hayes says. “The energy would drop dramatically.”

dheera 6y ago

"well-meaning friends—mainly other Black entrepreneurs who faced similar challenges—suggested that Givens add a White man as a co-founder." I'm not black, but I'm also not white, and I've been suggested this numerous times as well by well-meaning people after our startup not being able to fundraise for several months but some of our white-male-founded competitors had successfully raised. One friend was even joking about a "white-guy-as-a-service" to help minority startups get funded -- i.e. hire a white guy to show up to your VC pitch (or maybe pitch it for you) and your chances of funding would probably astronomically rise.

Throwsfnabf04 6y ago
Yeah this is real man, but products win in the end of the day, beat them, it makes the competition harder, so what? I am in the same boat, work twice as hard, racism won't give you time, this can take decades to fix. Best of luck
hckr_news 6y ago
This reminds me of a Nairobi-based startup who tweeted a job posting in which they were looking for a white male to join their team to act as a face for the business. I don't know if it was in jest but it was hilarious and sad.
- dheera 6y ago
  This is basically what DJI did. Sad world but I bet they wouldn't have gained so much traction and investment if their marketing wasn't always full of white people using them (they did this right from the very beginning).

erfgh 6y ago

> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. Why do you find this lonely? Do you not like the company of people unless they are black?

moftz 6y ago
Being the same race as someone else is one more thing you may have in common with someone when getting to know them. It's not that every white person or every black person has had the same life experience but when trying to connect with a new group of peers, you may be subconsciously drawn to approach someone that looks more like you before you approach someone that doesn't. Humans are still very tribal animals so we should be trying to make more diverse connections to others, to be more inclusive. Diversity in this sense doesn't just mean race but can also mean different genders, age groups, faiths, socio-economic classes, personalities, and physical abilities. Making more inclusive connections (other than based on appearance) can be hard because it requires actually getting to know someone first. I'm sure the parent comment doesn't mean that they only like the company of other black people. It's more likely they feel like an outsider on their team simply due to looking different and having a different cultural upbringing than their other teammates. A more inclusive team would have likely made the parent comment not feel this way. If you were on a team of 148 people of another race and there was only one other person that was the same as you, would you feel a little out of place?

spqr233 6y ago

As another black developer I can only relate to this.

flippyhead 6y ago

My personal strategy to avoid this is to just ask the person I think is least likely to be the CEO or whatever. If you are wrong, often the recipient feels flattered.

dynamite-ready 6y ago
Yes, but try doing that, when the CEO has a name that clearly matches their ethnicity.

southphillyman 6y ago

>You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. Almost a decade in the industry and I have never worked with another black developer. One time I was on a team with a black project manager who use to be a developer but that's it. For all the pushback on diversity recruiting I appreciate events like Google sandbox that remind me that we do exist and present opportunities to network.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Almost a decade in the industry and I have never worked with another black developer. Working in technology in the public sector, where women and racial/ethnic minorities underrepresented in technology as a whole are generally less underepresented than is generally the case, I've worked with...two others, in a similar time frame.
HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
I knew a black developer once on the job, but he was a contractor and not on my team. There's a joke in there somewhere, but I can't find it :-) I've gotten so used to it that it simply never occurs to me any more. Some companies are genuinely concerned. When I left a major corp, the VP of Software Development called me into his office and said (paraphrasing) "since you're leaving I can count on you to be honest with me. Are our diversity programs doing anything useful or are we just kidding ourselves?" The company I went to after that (another large corporation) hired a consultant to interview a set of women and minorities to try to understand how comfortable they felt in their day-to-day roles. Again, knowing the HR people there, I felt they were genuinely trying to foster a pleasant environment, but that's also the company where I came across that one black developer. Then again, I do recall travelling across the country to be my company's Expert for a deposition for a lawsuit over a project I was on and having the opposing party think I was the cab driver...