5 ms·

I don't get the anti-Apple here. The email from Apple posted on Twitter says quite clearly that people can acquire content and subscriptions elsewhere as long

I don't get the anti-Apple here. The email from Apple posted on Twitter says quite clearly that people can acquire content and subscriptions elsewhere as long as the app continues to offer an in-app purchase option. I don't see the problem here, give people the choice.

rubicon33 6y ago
The anti-apple thing here is, you can't link out to your website for payment. You literally cannot even inform the user that there is another way for them to pay. This is shitty. Apple benefits from developers making great apps on their platform, just as developers benefit from being on their platform. It's a symbiotic relationship, but Apple takes up to 30% of your profit which does not feel respectful of what developers are bringing to the table, which is often Apple first, quality apps.
- illuminated 6y ago
  This is not totally true. If you're using, say, Stripe for your payment processing then you can offer the user a choice if they'd pay through Stripe or Apple pay. If you do not have your own payment processor for mobile payments, then you use only Apple pay. If you do, then you have to include Apple as an option. I've been releasing apps with this in the past few years, it's been a requirement all along.
  - johnbellone 6y ago
    You don’t see the problem with that?
    - illuminated 6y ago
      Oh, I do. I don't like it at all as any payment through Apple costs way too much. I was just opposing the statement that you cannot offer another way of payment in an iOS app, that part is just not true.
  - zaksingh 6y ago
    That's not totally true, either. You can only use Stripe as an option if the service being paid for is delivered outside of the app (I.e. Uber, Ecommerce, etc). Any purely digital content must be paid for via in-app purchase and take the 30% revenue cut. That's why you can't get an Audible or Spotify subscription from within the app.
    - illuminated 6y ago
      That was the case in all the apps I've been involved with ("the service being paid for is delivered outside of the app"), so I probably did not pay much attention to the small letters.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rubicon33 6y ago
    It is totally true for the context of this conversation... Which is, software subscriptions. No, you cannot use Stripe for software subscriptions. Stripe (non-Apple pay) can only be used for physical goods, or sale of services rendered outside of iOS/MacOS. In other words, can only be used for non-digital sales. The context of this conversation is the Hey app, which is a software subscription, so no... there is no other way to pay.
    - illuminated 6y ago
      Yes, I have just figured that out. My experience was for the goods/services delivered outside the app.
- jonpurdy 6y ago
  It's worse. Hey doesn't take payment and only allows users to log in from the app, not sign up. Many apps already do this, including Netflix, Fastmail, and many more. Apple is saying that because Hey offers a subscription elsewhere, Hey should provide an in-app purchase as well, despite other apps not being forced to do this.
- stefan_ 6y ago
  I mean yes, that's been the case since in-app purchases on the Apple store. What's new? You can complain, tweet and seek regulatory relief but at the end of the day you built that app knowing perfectly well Apple will ask for 30% of your iOS revenue.
- truesy 6y ago
  I don't get this argument. Apple built the platform, so they can set a price. Any price. Their platform, their decision. Companies like Basecamp can decide to distribute on that platform or not. It's Apple's prerogative to find the optimal fee, to pair with what companies are willing and able to pay. Letting apps link out to websites for paywalls circumvents all of this. If I was in Apple's position I'd limit that as well.
- njsubedi 6y ago
  >Apple takes up to 30% of your profit They take 30% of your gross revenue. If you spent $x on development and marketing of your app, and generated $1.5x from iOS, they take away $0.45x and you're left with $1.05x which is actually a lot worse than if they only took 30% of your profit, which would be $0.15x.
benhurmarcel 6y ago
I think there would be much less of an issue if the consumer could be informed of that choice in the app.
ceejayoz 6y ago
No, it doesn't. https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272976901762478080 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272976901762478080 "We noticed that your app allows customers to access content, subscriptions, or features they have purchased elsewhere, but those items were not available as in-app purchases within the app." "Since the email services offered in your app are not the type listed under guideline 3.1.3(a) for 'Reader' apps, customers must be able to purchase access to features or functionality in your app using in-app purchase." This would ban Gmail, Netflix, and many others that handle payment entirely off-app. I can't pay for my GSuite via IAP, but I'm still allowed to use the Gmail app for it.
- gruez 6y ago
  >Netflix, and many others that handle payment entirely off-app nope. you can buy netflix subscriptions as an IAP https://apps.apple.com/us/app/netflix/id363590051 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/netflix/id363590051
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    As far as I can tell, you can't. Those IAPs listed don't appear to be purchasable any more; they're likely still listed because some existing subscriptions are still grandfathered in. They turned these off in 2018 (https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-subscriptions-iphone-ipad-ios-apple https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-...) and my "account" page in the Netflix app just tells me to go to Netflix.com to adjust everything.
- guscost 6y ago
  But Gmail, Netflix, and others have enough weight to “convince” Apple to give them a free pass. I would not be surprised if legal threats are common in these conversations. Recently I was looking at iOS hacks that turn the volume buttons into application controls, you know how both Snapchat and the native Camera app work. This is explicitly prohibited, but I would bet that Snapchat has threatened to sue over it, which is why it still works for them.
  - 6y ago
Reason077 6y ago
This is inconsistent with Apple's past policy. There was never a requirement (and still isn't, by my reading) that you must offer any paid services / subscriptions within the app. Only that if you do offer them in the app, you must use Apple's payment service and give Apple their cut. Spotify and Netflix have never offered subscriptions within their app - you can use the app to access those services, but you must subscribe on the web first.
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  Netflix accepted in-app subscriptions until December 2018.
  - Reason077 6y ago
    Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Presumably, they were just taking the hit and giving Apple their 30% ?

rubicon33 6y ago

The anti-apple thing here is, you can't link out to your website for payment. You literally cannot even inform the user that there is another way for them to pay. This is shitty. Apple benefits from developers making great apps on their platform, just as developers benefit from being on their platform. It's a symbiotic relationship, but Apple takes up to 30% of your profit which does not feel respectful of what developers are bringing to the table, which is often Apple first, quality apps.

illuminated 6y ago
This is not totally true. If you're using, say, Stripe for your payment processing then you can offer the user a choice if they'd pay through Stripe or Apple pay. If you do not have your own payment processor for mobile payments, then you use only Apple pay. If you do, then you have to include Apple as an option. I've been releasing apps with this in the past few years, it's been a requirement all along.
- johnbellone 6y ago
  You don’t see the problem with that?
  - illuminated 6y ago
    Oh, I do. I don't like it at all as any payment through Apple costs way too much. I was just opposing the statement that you cannot offer another way of payment in an iOS app, that part is just not true.
- zaksingh 6y ago
  That's not totally true, either. You can only use Stripe as an option if the service being paid for is delivered outside of the app (I.e. Uber, Ecommerce, etc). Any purely digital content must be paid for via in-app purchase and take the 30% revenue cut. That's why you can't get an Audible or Spotify subscription from within the app.
  - illuminated 6y ago
    That was the case in all the apps I've been involved with ("the service being paid for is delivered outside of the app"), so I probably did not pay much attention to the small letters.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rubicon33 6y ago
  It is totally true for the context of this conversation... Which is, software subscriptions. No, you cannot use Stripe for software subscriptions. Stripe (non-Apple pay) can only be used for physical goods, or sale of services rendered outside of iOS/MacOS. In other words, can only be used for non-digital sales. The context of this conversation is the Hey app, which is a software subscription, so no... there is no other way to pay.
  - illuminated 6y ago
    Yes, I have just figured that out. My experience was for the goods/services delivered outside the app.
jonpurdy 6y ago
It's worse. Hey doesn't take payment and only allows users to log in from the app, not sign up. Many apps already do this, including Netflix, Fastmail, and many more. Apple is saying that because Hey offers a subscription elsewhere, Hey should provide an in-app purchase as well, despite other apps not being forced to do this.
stefan_ 6y ago
I mean yes, that's been the case since in-app purchases on the Apple store. What's new? You can complain, tweet and seek regulatory relief but at the end of the day you built that app knowing perfectly well Apple will ask for 30% of your iOS revenue.
truesy 6y ago
I don't get this argument. Apple built the platform, so they can set a price. Any price. Their platform, their decision. Companies like Basecamp can decide to distribute on that platform or not. It's Apple's prerogative to find the optimal fee, to pair with what companies are willing and able to pay. Letting apps link out to websites for paywalls circumvents all of this. If I was in Apple's position I'd limit that as well.
njsubedi 6y ago
>Apple takes up to 30% of your profit They take 30% of your gross revenue. If you spent $x on development and marketing of your app, and generated $1.5x from iOS, they take away $0.45x and you're left with $1.05x which is actually a lot worse than if they only took 30% of your profit, which would be $0.15x.

benhurmarcel 6y ago

I think there would be much less of an issue if the consumer could be informed of that choice in the app.

ceejayoz 6y ago

No, it doesn't. https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272976901762478080 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272976901762478080 "We noticed that your app allows customers to access content, subscriptions, or features they have purchased elsewhere, but those items were not available as in-app purchases within the app." "Since the email services offered in your app are not the type listed under guideline 3.1.3(a) for 'Reader' apps, customers must be able to purchase access to features or functionality in your app using in-app purchase." This would ban Gmail, Netflix, and many others that handle payment entirely off-app. I can't pay for my GSuite via IAP, but I'm still allowed to use the Gmail app for it.

gruez 6y ago
>Netflix, and many others that handle payment entirely off-app nope. you can buy netflix subscriptions as an IAP https://apps.apple.com/us/app/netflix/id363590051 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/netflix/id363590051
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  As far as I can tell, you can't. Those IAPs listed don't appear to be purchasable any more; they're likely still listed because some existing subscriptions are still grandfathered in. They turned these off in 2018 (https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-subscriptions-iphone-ipad-ios-apple https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-...) and my "account" page in the Netflix app just tells me to go to Netflix.com to adjust everything.
guscost 6y ago
But Gmail, Netflix, and others have enough weight to “convince” Apple to give them a free pass. I would not be surprised if legal threats are common in these conversations. Recently I was looking at iOS hacks that turn the volume buttons into application controls, you know how both Snapchat and the native Camera app work. This is explicitly prohibited, but I would bet that Snapchat has threatened to sue over it, which is why it still works for them.
- 6y ago

Reason077 6y ago

This is inconsistent with Apple's past policy. There was never a requirement (and still isn't, by my reading) that you must offer any paid services / subscriptions within the app. Only that if you do offer them in the app, you must use Apple's payment service and give Apple their cut. Spotify and Netflix have never offered subscriptions within their app - you can use the app to access those services, but you must subscribe on the web first.

tomnipotent 6y ago
Netflix accepted in-app subscriptions until December 2018.
- Reason077 6y ago
  Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Presumably, they were just taking the hit and giving Apple their 30% ?