5 ms·

... its their culture let them do whatever they want

by quotz 6y ago

nabla9 6y ago
The article is about foreign investors doing whatever they want. Not investing. If Japanese companies want foreign investments, whatever they want is adding women in the mix.
simonh 6y ago
An investor in a Japanese firm, that has a vote in that firm's board elections is unambiguously a participant in that culture. They have responsibility for the way they cast their vote, and have a shared interest in and responsibility for the actions and behaviour of that company and it's management. If the owners of a company aren't responsible for how a company is run, who is?
- yostrovs 6y ago
  Isn't there any room for respect for traditional Japanese culture? They do have a different understanding of things over there and perhaps it's up to them how to change their ways. They have changed completely as a society at least twice before on their own. They may decide to do so again.
  - hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
    The restrictions mentioned in the article only apply to boards that do not have at least one (1) woman representative. They're not asking for 50%, and just 1 woman representative realistically would not change the culture so much.
    - CapricornNoble 6y ago
      >>>just 1 woman representative realistically would not change the culture so much I've never been on the board of a large public corporation....but I've been in all-male military units, and nothing starts to tear up unit cohesion quite like a female getting dropped into the mix. Over the past 10 years in Japan, I definitely see some parallels between the two cultures. The Japanese are very big on "shared experience" as a means of bonding as a team. Maybe in a team of young entrepreneurs adding a single female would make fewer waves, but on leadership team of 40-70yo established Japanese businessmen? I would not expect it to go smoothly. At all.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - cthalupa 6y ago
    >Isn't there any room for respect for traditional Japanese culture? Is culture a blanket excuse for bad behavior? Just because a country has a history of doing something doesn't make it worth respecting. Bad things are bad no matter how long they've been practiced.
    - hbogert 6y ago
      bad according to your cultural background?
      - totony 6y ago
        The hivemind strongly believes moral relativism isn't a thing and western culture is the only valid one.
        cthalupa 6y ago
        This is nice and snarky, but I don't think it's morally relativistic to say that actions that subjugate and control people based on race or sex are acceptable just because it's their "culture" Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place.
        totony 6y ago
        >Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place. Why is it that you think so? Why is it that your definition of human right, which seem to include being able to occupy that board of directors, should apply to anyone else?
        cthalupa 6y ago
        I wasn't speaking specifically of being on the board of directors - my point was that plenty of things happen because of "culture" that are simply unacceptable - like FGM. You cannot allow something to keep happening just because that's how it's been done, and yes, I would argue that not being mutilated is a basic human right. Thankfully Japan doesn't practice FGM, but being on the scale of "Bad shit" at "Discriminating against women" instead of "Horrifically mutilating them" doesn't earn them congratulations and a pat on the back. It was American culture to not let women vote, to keep them as stay at home parents, to load them up with children constantly to build our families. That doesn't mean that that treatment was right. But, as for the board of directors, women have been working full time in professional roles in Japan for decades now. Japan, to this day, still has famously sexist workplace culture. More than half of all adult women in Japan are employed, yet even those with college degrees have a hard time finding full time employment, compared to men with the same degrees from the same schools. Women are not treated equally in the workplace in Japan. 2nd highest gender pay gap in the OECD, behind only Korea. "Be sexist towards women" isn't something you get a pass on just because it's your culture. This isn't moral relativism. Human beings are human beings, and shouldn't be discriminated against because of their gender, skin color, etc. Unless you want to argue that women are biologically less suited for being members of a companies board? This requirement tells Japanese companies they need to do one of three things, if they want foreign investment: They need to either find qualified women within their company and promote them and bring them onto the board as they should have been doing all along, find qualified candidates from outside, or begin actually hiring and developing women in their company if they have not been doing so.
  - yokaze 6y ago
    > They have changed completely as a society at least twice before on their own. Can you name any events? I would be hard pressed to find any where anything happened "on their own" (and that is not specific to Japan). No country is completely isolated, not even Japan during Sakoku. For the to last major ones, I wouldn't call "On their own" an entirely accurate description: Being on the losing side of WWII and under occupation, and negotiating at gunpoint a treaty with US to end the self-isolation of Japan.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  I think we are talking western investors but as you describe it, foreign investors might be really bad for a company depending on where they are from.
morceauxdebois 6y ago
Why?
raxxorrax 6y ago
I don't think it is honestly, even if it is still very one sided. I think this is simple propaganda from western investment firms. People are just buying it like nothing else because they don't understand their ambitions in Japan.
ralusek 6y ago
They can do whatever they want, and so can investors...

... its their culture let them do whatever they want

by quotz 6y ago

... its their culture let them do whatever they want

The article is about foreign investors doing whatever they want. Not investing. If Japanese companies want foreign investments, whatever they want is adding women in the mix.

simonh 6y ago

An investor in a Japanese firm, that has a vote in that firm's board elections is unambiguously a participant in that culture. They have responsibility for the way they cast their vote, and have a shared interest in and responsibility for the actions and behaviour of that company and it's management. If the owners of a company aren't responsible for how a company is run, who is?

yostrovs 6y ago
Isn't there any room for respect for traditional Japanese culture? They do have a different understanding of things over there and perhaps it's up to them how to change their ways. They have changed completely as a society at least twice before on their own. They may decide to do so again.
- hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
  The restrictions mentioned in the article only apply to boards that do not have at least one (1) woman representative. They're not asking for 50%, and just 1 woman representative realistically would not change the culture so much.
  - CapricornNoble 6y ago
    >>>just 1 woman representative realistically would not change the culture so much I've never been on the board of a large public corporation....but I've been in all-male military units, and nothing starts to tear up unit cohesion quite like a female getting dropped into the mix. Over the past 10 years in Japan, I definitely see some parallels between the two cultures. The Japanese are very big on "shared experience" as a means of bonding as a team. Maybe in a team of young entrepreneurs adding a single female would make fewer waves, but on leadership team of 40-70yo established Japanese businessmen? I would not expect it to go smoothly. At all.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- cthalupa 6y ago
  >Isn't there any room for respect for traditional Japanese culture? Is culture a blanket excuse for bad behavior? Just because a country has a history of doing something doesn't make it worth respecting. Bad things are bad no matter how long they've been practiced.
  - hbogert 6y ago
    bad according to your cultural background?
    - totony 6y ago
      The hivemind strongly believes moral relativism isn't a thing and western culture is the only valid one.
      - cthalupa 6y ago
        This is nice and snarky, but I don't think it's morally relativistic to say that actions that subjugate and control people based on race or sex are acceptable just because it's their "culture" Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place.
        totony 6y ago
        >Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place. Why is it that you think so? Why is it that your definition of human right, which seem to include being able to occupy that board of directors, should apply to anyone else?
        cthalupa 6y ago
        I wasn't speaking specifically of being on the board of directors - my point was that plenty of things happen because of "culture" that are simply unacceptable - like FGM. You cannot allow something to keep happening just because that's how it's been done, and yes, I would argue that not being mutilated is a basic human right. Thankfully Japan doesn't practice FGM, but being on the scale of "Bad shit" at "Discriminating against women" instead of "Horrifically mutilating them" doesn't earn them congratulations and a pat on the back. It was American culture to not let women vote, to keep them as stay at home parents, to load them up with children constantly to build our families. That doesn't mean that that treatment was right. But, as for the board of directors, women have been working full time in professional roles in Japan for decades now. Japan, to this day, still has famously sexist workplace culture. More than half of all adult women in Japan are employed, yet even those with college degrees have a hard time finding full time employment, compared to men with the same degrees from the same schools. Women are not treated equally in the workplace in Japan. 2nd highest gender pay gap in the OECD, behind only Korea. "Be sexist towards women" isn't something you get a pass on just because it's your culture. This isn't moral relativism. Human beings are human beings, and shouldn't be discriminated against because of their gender, skin color, etc. Unless you want to argue that women are biologically less suited for being members of a companies board? This requirement tells Japanese companies they need to do one of three things, if they want foreign investment: They need to either find qualified women within their company and promote them and bring them onto the board as they should have been doing all along, find qualified candidates from outside, or begin actually hiring and developing women in their company if they have not been doing so.
- yokaze 6y ago
  > They have changed completely as a society at least twice before on their own. Can you name any events? I would be hard pressed to find any where anything happened "on their own" (and that is not specific to Japan). No country is completely isolated, not even Japan during Sakoku. For the to last major ones, I wouldn't call "On their own" an entirely accurate description: Being on the losing side of WWII and under occupation, and negotiating at gunpoint a treaty with US to end the self-isolation of Japan.
raxxorrax 6y ago
I think we are talking western investors but as you describe it, foreign investors might be really bad for a company depending on where they are from.

morceauxdebois 6y ago

Why?

raxxorrax 6y ago

I don't think it is honestly, even if it is still very one sided. I think this is simple propaganda from western investment firms. People are just buying it like nothing else because they don't understand their ambitions in Japan.

ralusek 6y ago

They can do whatever they want, and so can investors...