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Policing is not a dangerous job. According to the FBI, which publishes the data in the Uniform Crime Reports, from 1980–2018, an average of 85 law enforcement

Policing is not a dangerous job. According to the FBI, which publishes the data in the Uniform Crime Reports, from 1980–2018, an average of 85 law enforcement officers were feloniously killed per year. In 2018 there were 686,665 police in the US.

Titanous 6y ago
This is correct. In fact, landscaping and groundskeeping workers (among many other categories) suffered more fatalities than police officers in 2018 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0326.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0326.htm
- bpodgursky 6y ago
  Sorta meaningless unless you cross it against the actual count of people in the occupation (estimates in this list https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/emp-by-detailed-occupation.htm https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/emp-by-detailed-occupation.ht...) I don't really want to get into the actual meat of the argument, but please use per-capita death stats so the numbers are actually comparable.
  - Titanous 6y ago
    Sure, I combined the two tables in the spreadsheet linked below, and there are many occupations that are more dangerous than police officer if we look at fatalities by per-capita occupation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXtv2wnutujfXWUHB9Bmr-IWnNR2La8Q-ccr-Ikh2oM/edit#gid=971462432 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXtv2wnutujfXWUHB9Bm...
    - oh_sigh 6y ago
      This sounds like one arguing that playing russian roulette isn't dangerous, because one can name more dangerous activities. The fact that deep sea fishing is ultra dangerous doesn't mean that being a cop isn't dangerous.
      - triceratops 6y ago
        "It's a dangerous job" is given as a reason for why so much policy brutality occurs. Pointing out how dangerous it is relative to other professions is absolutely germane.
        oh_sigh 6y ago
        That's exactly my point, and no it isn't. Policing isn't less dangerous because deep sea fishing is really dangerous. If someone said "It's the most dangerous job", then it would be germane. Here's the same logic applied elsewhere: It's not dangerous to be a black man in America. What's really dangerous is to be a El Salvadoran living in El Salvador(the country with the highest murder rate in the world).
        triceratops 6y ago
        It's not the same logic though. A black man in America didn't choose to be a black man, and has no way to change it. Ditto for an El Salvadoran - most can't legally emigrate. Police officers are volunteers, not conscripts. They're free at any time to choose a less dangerous profession if they so wish. Ultimately it doesn't matter if policing was more dangerous than working in an asbestos-uranium mine on a fault line. There's no excuse for law enforcement to be breaking laws without consequence. People who can't tolerate the risks should go do something else.
stock_toaster 6y ago
Not even in the top 10, apparently. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-according-to-bls-data.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-i...
jacoblambda 6y ago
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of deaths, injuries, and trauma(PTSD and such) per capita for police officers versus various US Armed Forces MOSes as well as common civilian trades/occupations. I imagine in general it's safer in most regards than many trades and MOSes but until I see the data I wouldn't want to make an actual assertion. I'd put this together myself if I felt competent enough to do this properly but by no means am I a data scientist or anyone actually qualified to do this.
Aloha 6y ago
in 2019 there were a mere 89 deaths, and 41 one of those were vehicle accidents.
chrisco255 6y ago
That's only a function of how good they are at what they do. They have to engage in over 10 million incidents a year. Any one of those could be a routine traffic stop that suddenly turns into a gang bust and an attempt is made on their own life. They don't have the luxury of foresight of knowing if they're coming home today or not. They know they're a target. Contrast that with your average aeron chair programmer and I'd say their job is incredibly fucking dangerous. Edit: It's number 15 and only because 2019 was a near record low year, following decades of decline and improved equipment and training. That's a function of how good they are. And if you make them worse or non-existent, crime will go up. While the construction industry is accidentally dangerous, cops are victims of intentional violence and hatred. They have to deal with drugged out, abusive, angry people all the time. They have to console rape victims. They have to help assess suicides, murders, deadly car accidents and all kinds of unpleasant bullshit. They see death on the job every single day. It's not a walk in the park. It causes unbelievable stress (especially in high crime districts) and it pays 1/3 of what a junior JS dev makes and they don't get stock options or grants It's 5x more deadly than average occupation and 6x more injurious. It also causes loads of psychological and emotional stress because they have to deal with people going through some of the worst episodes of their lives...all the time. https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-officers-2014.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-officers-2014.htm
- TeaDrunk 6y ago
  Their job is not more dangerous than a pizza delivery driver.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  Pizza delivery drivers have to deliver over 10 million pizzas a year. Any one of those deliveries could be cut short by a drunk driver that causes a head-on collision at 60 miles per hour. They don't have the luxury of foresight of knowing if they're coming home today or not. They know they're at risk. Contrast that with your average cop issuing citations and filling out paperwork and I'd say their job is incredibly fucking dangerous.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
downerending 6y ago
I'm guessing that that cop in Vegas that was just paralyzed for life by some "protester" would not agree with you. You don't have to be killed "feloniously" to be dead. And you don't have to be killed at all to have your life destroyed.

Titanous 6y ago

This is correct. In fact, landscaping and groundskeeping workers (among many other categories) suffered more fatalities than police officers in 2018 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0326.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0326.htm

bpodgursky 6y ago
Sorta meaningless unless you cross it against the actual count of people in the occupation (estimates in this list https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/emp-by-detailed-occupation.htm https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/emp-by-detailed-occupation.ht...) I don't really want to get into the actual meat of the argument, but please use per-capita death stats so the numbers are actually comparable.
- Titanous 6y ago
  Sure, I combined the two tables in the spreadsheet linked below, and there are many occupations that are more dangerous than police officer if we look at fatalities by per-capita occupation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXtv2wnutujfXWUHB9Bmr-IWnNR2La8Q-ccr-Ikh2oM/edit#gid=971462432 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXtv2wnutujfXWUHB9Bm...
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    This sounds like one arguing that playing russian roulette isn't dangerous, because one can name more dangerous activities. The fact that deep sea fishing is ultra dangerous doesn't mean that being a cop isn't dangerous.
    - triceratops 6y ago
      "It's a dangerous job" is given as a reason for why so much policy brutality occurs. Pointing out how dangerous it is relative to other professions is absolutely germane.
      - oh_sigh 6y ago
        That's exactly my point, and no it isn't. Policing isn't less dangerous because deep sea fishing is really dangerous. If someone said "It's the most dangerous job", then it would be germane. Here's the same logic applied elsewhere: It's not dangerous to be a black man in America. What's really dangerous is to be a El Salvadoran living in El Salvador(the country with the highest murder rate in the world).
        triceratops 6y ago
        It's not the same logic though. A black man in America didn't choose to be a black man, and has no way to change it. Ditto for an El Salvadoran - most can't legally emigrate. Police officers are volunteers, not conscripts. They're free at any time to choose a less dangerous profession if they so wish. Ultimately it doesn't matter if policing was more dangerous than working in an asbestos-uranium mine on a fault line. There's no excuse for law enforcement to be breaking laws without consequence. People who can't tolerate the risks should go do something else.

stock_toaster 6y ago

Not even in the top 10, apparently. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-according-to-bls-data.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-i...

jacoblambda 6y ago

I'd be interested to see a breakdown of deaths, injuries, and trauma(PTSD and such) per capita for police officers versus various US Armed Forces MOSes as well as common civilian trades/occupations. I imagine in general it's safer in most regards than many trades and MOSes but until I see the data I wouldn't want to make an actual assertion. I'd put this together myself if I felt competent enough to do this properly but by no means am I a data scientist or anyone actually qualified to do this.

Aloha 6y ago

in 2019 there were a mere 89 deaths, and 41 one of those were vehicle accidents.

chrisco255 6y ago

That's only a function of how good they are at what they do. They have to engage in over 10 million incidents a year. Any one of those could be a routine traffic stop that suddenly turns into a gang bust and an attempt is made on their own life. They don't have the luxury of foresight of knowing if they're coming home today or not. They know they're a target. Contrast that with your average aeron chair programmer and I'd say their job is incredibly fucking dangerous. Edit: It's number 15 and only because 2019 was a near record low year, following decades of decline and improved equipment and training. That's a function of how good they are. And if you make them worse or non-existent, crime will go up. While the construction industry is accidentally dangerous, cops are victims of intentional violence and hatred. They have to deal with drugged out, abusive, angry people all the time. They have to console rape victims. They have to help assess suicides, murders, deadly car accidents and all kinds of unpleasant bullshit. They see death on the job every single day. It's not a walk in the park. It causes unbelievable stress (especially in high crime districts) and it pays 1/3 of what a junior JS dev makes and they don't get stock options or grants It's 5x more deadly than average occupation and 6x more injurious. It also causes loads of psychological and emotional stress because they have to deal with people going through some of the worst episodes of their lives...all the time. https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-officers-2014.htm https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-officers-2014.htm

TeaDrunk 6y ago
Their job is not more dangerous than a pizza delivery driver.
deathgrips 6y ago
Pizza delivery drivers have to deliver over 10 million pizzas a year. Any one of those deliveries could be cut short by a drunk driver that causes a head-on collision at 60 miles per hour. They don't have the luxury of foresight of knowing if they're coming home today or not. They know they're at risk. Contrast that with your average cop issuing citations and filling out paperwork and I'd say their job is incredibly fucking dangerous.
- chrisco255 6y ago

downerending 6y ago

I'm guessing that that cop in Vegas that was just paralyzed for life by some "protester" would not agree with you. You don't have to be killed "feloniously" to be dead. And you don't have to be killed at all to have your life destroyed.