5 ms·

I'd like to see how many poorer men in general. I'm a black engineer and I couldn't count how many of my classmates would have graduated if they were in my shoe

I'd like to see how many poorer men in general. I'm a black engineer and I couldn't count how many of my classmates would have graduated if they were in my shoes. There were 4-5 weeks at different where I just ran out money and sat on bed instead of eating thinking I couldn't be hungry is I was sleep. I usually found enough money to collect to buy a bag of rice for the month. But regardless of race this is hard. Given there no attempt to help anyone with anything as simple as a food shelter on college campus why would they stay. It's kind of un-nerving watching some engineers friends discuss this. It's kind of arrogant and presumptuous. I'm not even close to the smart person I grew up with. When they discuss that maybe black people may not have the intellect, that I know a guy who was forced to work a meat packing plant that could run circles around you in any STEM subject, but wasn't given the opportunity or was willing to starve himself for the chance. I think the US leaves a lot of talent on the cutting room floor especially those interested in subject we deem essential. It's pretty saddening.

the_resistence 6y ago
Really great food for thought.
belval 6y ago
If I can provide an interesting data point, I had access to a survey given to students at one college that asked a few questions to cross it with the student's results. Guess which was the undeniably most common issue among people failing two classes or more? Financial insecurity. It's hard figuring out a solution there as that was in a country with cheap (not free but still) education.
- cbsks 6y ago
  Anecdotally, of my friend group in college (at a large state school in the US) everyone who was financially stable eventually graduated with a bachelors degree. 3 out of 4 of my friends who were paying themselves through college dropped out. Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them.
  - chii 6y ago
    > Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them. Would it have been better to part time both job and college? Instead of 3-4 yrs for a degree, it takes 6-8 years, but you also work part time during. This route exists for many colleges - why not do this?
    - kyawzazaw 6y ago
      Some financial aid plans only provides up to a limited amount of semesters.
    - cbsks 6y ago
      I don't remember the specifics of 2 of my friends who dropped out, but one of my friends transitioned from working part time and going to school full time, to working part time and going to school part time, to working full time and going to school part time, to only working full time. The process took about 3 years.
    - codycraven 6y ago
      My wife and I personally did this. I took 6 years, she took 8 (we had a baby and she got a teaching credential, which is why hers took longer). Graduated without any debt, but it was rediculously hard, especially in years 4-5.5 when I lost my job (2008 recession) and survived solely off rice, turkey hotdogs, and whitebread (leaving barely enough to cover diapers/medical.
  - csharptwdec19 6y ago
    Not just that. I've noticed a difference in success from my associates who worked in college and did not. Those who worked no jobs, or worked jobs that were close to their career were able to either network in school or network through those jobs, helping them in their careers. Those who had to work retail or similar jobs had a much more difficult time getting their career paths started.
  - zimmern 6y ago
    >>>Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them. Nobody said it would be easy. Having a part time job during the school year and a full time job during the summer is just what you have to do. So suck it up for 4 to 6 years like everyone else and quit complaining. So sick of lazy ass millenials crying about literally everything. You shits have the easiest/safest life in the history of the world, yet you still cry and complain. Sick of you cry babies.
- david38 6y ago
  Like all things you want to buy, sometimes you need to borrow or save beforehand.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
andromeduck 6y ago
I've never gotten to that point but definitely had a great moments when it wasn't entirely clear how I'd find the finances to continue without the support of family financially and otherwise and much else in terms of a social safety net. The absolute lowest point was after a particularly bad first semester in second year that required much higher average in the second to retain good standing I received a letter in informing me not only that no longer qualified for the loans for academic performance but also that repayments wer soon to start. I think it eventually turned out to be a clerical error but I definitely had a few episodes wandering aimlessly from twilight to dawn questioning my ability to complete the degree, who I'd be able go to for support, how I'd live with myself if I took support and still failed, how I'd afford to pay it off or support myself if I dropped out right now, the embarrassment of doing so, rationality of choosing to double down on sunk costs vs potentially losing a once in a lifetime opportunity I'd already sunk so much into, and if I had really made the right decision in choosing to attend in the first place. Looking back though, the experiences and situations were so formative I sometimes wonder if to change them would be to dilute and erase oneself.
dx034 6y ago
The US definitely has a lot of untapped potential. And they're not even worst in class. According to the OECD, other countries (e.g. Germany, France) are much worse when it comes to social mobility [1]. [1] http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/1-5%20generations.png http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/1-5%20generations.png
- mercer 6y ago
  Interesting. One thing to keep in mind that being in the bottom 10% might be a lot better in one country over another though. I'm trying to think of what kind of statistic would show this. Something concerning "Quality of Life"? Any ideas?

the_resistence 6y ago

Really great food for thought.

belval 6y ago

If I can provide an interesting data point, I had access to a survey given to students at one college that asked a few questions to cross it with the student's results. Guess which was the undeniably most common issue among people failing two classes or more? Financial insecurity. It's hard figuring out a solution there as that was in a country with cheap (not free but still) education.

cbsks 6y ago
Anecdotally, of my friend group in college (at a large state school in the US) everyone who was financially stable eventually graduated with a bachelors degree. 3 out of 4 of my friends who were paying themselves through college dropped out. Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them.
- chii 6y ago
  > Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them. Would it have been better to part time both job and college? Instead of 3-4 yrs for a degree, it takes 6-8 years, but you also work part time during. This route exists for many colleges - why not do this?
  - kyawzazaw 6y ago
    Some financial aid plans only provides up to a limited amount of semesters.
  - cbsks 6y ago
    I don't remember the specifics of 2 of my friends who dropped out, but one of my friends transitioned from working part time and going to school full time, to working part time and going to school part time, to working full time and going to school part time, to only working full time. The process took about 3 years.
  - codycraven 6y ago
    My wife and I personally did this. I took 6 years, she took 8 (we had a baby and she got a teaching credential, which is why hers took longer). Graduated without any debt, but it was rediculously hard, especially in years 4-5.5 when I lost my job (2008 recession) and survived solely off rice, turkey hotdogs, and whitebread (leaving barely enough to cover diapers/medical.
- csharptwdec19 6y ago
  Not just that. I've noticed a difference in success from my associates who worked in college and did not. Those who worked no jobs, or worked jobs that were close to their career were able to either network in school or network through those jobs, helping them in their careers. Those who had to work retail or similar jobs had a much more difficult time getting their career paths started.
- zimmern 6y ago
  >>>Having a part time job and trying to go to school full time took a huge toll on them. Nobody said it would be easy. Having a part time job during the school year and a full time job during the summer is just what you have to do. So suck it up for 4 to 6 years like everyone else and quit complaining. So sick of lazy ass millenials crying about literally everything. You shits have the easiest/safest life in the history of the world, yet you still cry and complain. Sick of you cry babies.
david38 6y ago
Like all things you want to buy, sometimes you need to borrow or save beforehand.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

andromeduck 6y ago

I've never gotten to that point but definitely had a great moments when it wasn't entirely clear how I'd find the finances to continue without the support of family financially and otherwise and much else in terms of a social safety net. The absolute lowest point was after a particularly bad first semester in second year that required much higher average in the second to retain good standing I received a letter in informing me not only that no longer qualified for the loans for academic performance but also that repayments wer soon to start. I think it eventually turned out to be a clerical error but I definitely had a few episodes wandering aimlessly from twilight to dawn questioning my ability to complete the degree, who I'd be able go to for support, how I'd live with myself if I took support and still failed, how I'd afford to pay it off or support myself if I dropped out right now, the embarrassment of doing so, rationality of choosing to double down on sunk costs vs potentially losing a once in a lifetime opportunity I'd already sunk so much into, and if I had really made the right decision in choosing to attend in the first place. Looking back though, the experiences and situations were so formative I sometimes wonder if to change them would be to dilute and erase oneself.

dx034 6y ago

The US definitely has a lot of untapped potential. And they're not even worst in class. According to the OECD, other countries (e.g. Germany, France) are much worse when it comes to social mobility [1]. [1] http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/1-5%20generations.png http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/1-5%20generations.png

mercer 6y ago
Interesting. One thing to keep in mind that being in the bottom 10% might be a lot better in one country over another though. I'm trying to think of what kind of statistic would show this. Something concerning "Quality of Life"? Any ideas?