6 ms·

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false t

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and for that, they receive undeserved discrimination and disrespect.

deogeo 6y ago
Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population. Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-hard egalitarians? Or would they continue treating their co-ethnics preferentially, as well as benefitting from their heritage and background, such as strong family ties, emphasis on education, etc. (the definition of privilege when applied to whites)? [1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-says-japan-is-nation-of-one-race/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-sa... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-card-stephon-marbury.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-ca... [3] https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new-status-could-bring-demographic-change-drawing-comparisons-west-bank/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new...
- Ghjklov 6y ago
  I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action Anyway, Asians did not succeed from a position of privilege. They succeeded in spite of everything the American voter (largely white) voted for to keep them down.
  - deogeo 6y ago
    > I didn't say anything about whites. When you say "odds are stacked against" someone, you have to compare to some other group to see what the "default" odds are. And privilege is not limited to the law. If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, because of the Chinese Exclusion Act? Or because you just don't believe such a thing happens, despite evidence to the contrary [1,2]? [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Elekta-RVW14470321.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Elekta-RVW... [2] https://qz.com/india/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouraging-indians-to-hire-others-indians-and-its-killing-diversity/ https://qz.com/india/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouragin...
    - Ghjklov 6y ago
      >If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, Untrue, I have not claimed this anywhere or have implied such a thing.
      - deogeo 6y ago
        Claiming Asians in the US have never benefited from privilege implies exactly that, unless you tweak the definition of privilege depending on what group you're judging.
  - the_omegist 6y ago
    I am not Asian and don't live in the US but i think you're forcing it a little on the drama. Sure the first Asians immigrants didn't have it easy. But since the 70s, Asian people benefit from a positive stereotype overall. In the job or education market, I can't see how you can argue Asian people have it harder than white people.
    - Ghjklov 6y ago
      There's no positive stereotypes. Given the stereotype that Asians are smart, what happens to impoverished Asians who did not have a good education and upbringing and aren't as smart as others? They get demoralized and are cast aside in many cases. I don't see how you could ever come to the conclusion that Asian people don't have it harder than white people given the wiki links I've provided. Given how American/white culture often disrespects and mocks Asian culture and classifies them as uncreative followers unfit to lead. Asian success is not proof that Asians are privileged or have it easier than other people. Asian success came in spite of everything done to them in this country. They put their head down and gave their sweat and blood to get where they are now.
bjr11 6y ago
I envy your ability to be certain about such complex and nuanced topics. To type unverifiable opinions as fact without the least bit of embarrassment is breath taking. Thank you!
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing." As an Asian, I don't agree with that. Many Asians emigrated from Asia with very little possessions and started their lives in Western countries in conditions as bad or worse than the poorest native born, including a significant language barrier and, yes, racism in their newly adopted homelands. Yet, by and large, they have built successful lives. I'd describe the statement as incredibly accurate and unequivocally true.
- Ghjklov 6y ago
  I think you are misreading something. I am arguing against the suggestion that Asians have unearned privilege which allowed them to become successful in America.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    Ah, sorry. I did indeed misread your comment.
- harpratap 6y ago
  Not sure about other Asians, but most South Asians that immigrated to US already had degrees and were upper-middle class (having the money to buy international plane tickets automatically qualifies you to be upper-middle class). Sure they had to live poor initially but their mentality was "this is temporary and we will improve our situation soon enough".
  - chii 6y ago
    > Sure they had to live poor initially but their mentality was "this is temporary and we will improve our situation soon enough". so to get back to the grandparent post's question - why don't black people have this same mentality? What is it that's specific that's causing the disparity between asians and blacks?

deogeo 6y ago

Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population. Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-hard egalitarians? Or would they continue treating their co-ethnics preferentially, as well as benefitting from their heritage and background, such as strong family ties, emphasis on education, etc. (the definition of privilege when applied to whites)? [1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-says-japan-is-nation-of-one-race/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-sa... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-card-stephon-marbury.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-ca... [3] https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new-status-could-bring-demographic-change-drawing-comparisons-west-bank/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new...

Ghjklov 6y ago
I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action Anyway, Asians did not succeed from a position of privilege. They succeeded in spite of everything the American voter (largely white) voted for to keep them down.
- deogeo 6y ago
  > I didn't say anything about whites. When you say "odds are stacked against" someone, you have to compare to some other group to see what the "default" odds are. And privilege is not limited to the law. If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, because of the Chinese Exclusion Act? Or because you just don't believe such a thing happens, despite evidence to the contrary [1,2]? [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Elekta-RVW14470321.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Elekta-RVW... [2] https://qz.com/india/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouraging-indians-to-hire-others-indians-and-its-killing-diversity/ https://qz.com/india/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouragin...
  - Ghjklov 6y ago
    >If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, Untrue, I have not claimed this anywhere or have implied such a thing.
    - deogeo 6y ago
      Claiming Asians in the US have never benefited from privilege implies exactly that, unless you tweak the definition of privilege depending on what group you're judging.
- the_omegist 6y ago
  I am not Asian and don't live in the US but i think you're forcing it a little on the drama. Sure the first Asians immigrants didn't have it easy. But since the 70s, Asian people benefit from a positive stereotype overall. In the job or education market, I can't see how you can argue Asian people have it harder than white people.
  - Ghjklov 6y ago
    There's no positive stereotypes. Given the stereotype that Asians are smart, what happens to impoverished Asians who did not have a good education and upbringing and aren't as smart as others? They get demoralized and are cast aside in many cases. I don't see how you could ever come to the conclusion that Asian people don't have it harder than white people given the wiki links I've provided. Given how American/white culture often disrespects and mocks Asian culture and classifies them as uncreative followers unfit to lead. Asian success is not proof that Asians are privileged or have it easier than other people. Asian success came in spite of everything done to them in this country. They put their head down and gave their sweat and blood to get where they are now.

bjr11 6y ago

I envy your ability to be certain about such complex and nuanced topics. To type unverifiable opinions as fact without the least bit of embarrassment is breath taking. Thank you!

ThrowawayR2 6y ago

> "That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing." As an Asian, I don't agree with that. Many Asians emigrated from Asia with very little possessions and started their lives in Western countries in conditions as bad or worse than the poorest native born, including a significant language barrier and, yes, racism in their newly adopted homelands. Yet, by and large, they have built successful lives. I'd describe the statement as incredibly accurate and unequivocally true.

Ghjklov 6y ago
I think you are misreading something. I am arguing against the suggestion that Asians have unearned privilege which allowed them to become successful in America.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  Ah, sorry. I did indeed misread your comment.
harpratap 6y ago
Not sure about other Asians, but most South Asians that immigrated to US already had degrees and were upper-middle class (having the money to buy international plane tickets automatically qualifies you to be upper-middle class). Sure they had to live poor initially but their mentality was "this is temporary and we will improve our situation soon enough".
- chii 6y ago
  > Sure they had to live poor initially but their mentality was "this is temporary and we will improve our situation soon enough". so to get back to the grandparent post's question - why don't black people have this same mentality? What is it that's specific that's causing the disparity between asians and blacks?