4 ms·

The stats on black/white/Asian college achievement makes for an uncomfortable discussion. It's okay to suggest that systemic racism is why black people don't p

The stats on black/white/Asian college achievement makes for an uncomfortable discussion. It's okay to suggest that systemic racism is why black people don't participate in college as much as you'd expect based on their prevalence in society, but it's also okay to say that the reason Asians are over-represented is because culturally they've made it a huge priority to attain as much education as possible. Maybe we should focus less on trying to identify and somehow solve systemic racism and more about making it culturally acceptable and desirable for black people to enter the STEM fields. Highlight the superstars in STEM who are kicking ass (e.g. Neil deGrasse Tyson) and encouraging people to identify with him and motivate them to work even harder.

deogeo 6y ago
Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority? Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  > Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? Reverse racism, as it were? > What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority? Well, first they'd need to be over-represented ;). > Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate. On the contrary, there seems to be a bazillion sides to this whole discussion.
  - deogeo 6y ago
    > Well, first they'd need to be over-represented ;) Not at all - behold, an entire article complaining about too many whites on Harvard [1], despite being the most under-represented group [2]. [1] https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirmative-action-white-students-legacy-athletes-donors.html https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirm... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21130080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21130080
- Ghjklov 6y ago
  >Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and for that, they receive undeserved discrimination and disrespect.
  - deogeo 6y ago
    Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population. Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-hard egalitarians? Or would they continue treating their co-ethnics preferentially, as well as benefitting from their heritage and background, such as strong family ties, emphasis on education, etc. (the definition of privilege when applied to whites)? [1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-says-japan-is-nation-of-one-race/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-sa... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-card-stephon-marbury.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-ca... [3] https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new-status-could-bring-demographic-change-drawing-comparisons-west-bank/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new...
    - Ghjklov 6y ago
      I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action Anyway, Asians did not succeed from a position of privilege. They succeeded in spite of everything the American voter (largely white) voted for to keep them down.
the_omegist 6y ago
Exactly. The cognitive dissonance must be painful, for some people. Poverty explains part of it but there is a cultural and familial part too. Society isn't responsible for everything.

deogeo 6y ago

Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority? Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.

rootusrootus 6y ago
> Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? Reverse racism, as it were? > What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority? Well, first they'd need to be over-represented ;). > Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate. On the contrary, there seems to be a bazillion sides to this whole discussion.
- deogeo 6y ago
  > Well, first they'd need to be over-represented ;) Not at all - behold, an entire article complaining about too many whites on Harvard [1], despite being the most under-represented group [2]. [1] https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirmative-action-white-students-legacy-athletes-donors.html https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirm... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21130080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21130080
Ghjklov 6y ago
>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and for that, they receive undeserved discrimination and disrespect.
- deogeo 6y ago
  Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population. Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-hard egalitarians? Or would they continue treating their co-ethnics preferentially, as well as benefitting from their heritage and background, such as strong family ties, emphasis on education, etc. (the definition of privilege when applied to whites)? [1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-says-japan-is-nation-of-one-race/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-sa... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-card-stephon-marbury.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-ca... [3] https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new-status-could-bring-demographic-change-drawing-comparisons-west-bank/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new...
  - Ghjklov 6y ago
    I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action Anyway, Asians did not succeed from a position of privilege. They succeeded in spite of everything the American voter (largely white) voted for to keep them down.

the_omegist 6y ago

Exactly. The cognitive dissonance must be painful, for some people. Poverty explains part of it but there is a cultural and familial part too. Society isn't responsible for everything.