5 ms·

I don't understand. What is the danger that this poses? Is it that the American government is funding science that only benefits China somehow? How?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
The danger is that people who are secretly funded by the Chinese government, and lie about it to the US government, might be flipped to foreign agents in case of conflict. The funding itself I agree isn't an issue, and the probe doesn't seem to have targeted people who were honest about it.
- coliveira 6y ago
  Communist scare all over again? Using this logic we should go over everywhere in the US to see who has ties to China just like they did in the 50s against the soviet union. Everyone knows how that ended...
  - ipsocannibal 6y ago
    I think you can look at the actions and history of the CCP and be pretty wary of their intent and the methods they will use to get there. China estimates 16.5M died due to the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution brought millions more deaths. Fast forward to more recent events in tiananmen square, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, etc. and one can be easily made skeptical of the motives of the CCP.
    - Angeo34 6y ago
      If that's how you look at it the US must be the literal devil with China his junior in training.
      - ipsocannibal 6y ago
        And how exactly? What metrics are you baseing this claim upon. Name them and lets compare.
    - wonnage 6y ago
      it seems like your version of CPC is mostly interested in killing their own citizens; where's the harm to the US?
      - ipsocannibal 6y ago
        If you are willing to use mass killing as a political tool in you own country what will you be willing to resort to to achieve political ends with others?
  - vikramkr 6y ago
    With the Russians getting nukes? That's how that ended. The red state's overreach and predudicial nature doesn't invalidate the reality that the USSR had spies that stole state secrets and important research. And if we were any good at our jobs, the US had a bunch of spies over there too. That's kind of what nation states in conflict do.
    - coliveira 6y ago
      In the history of the planet, only was rogue country had the villainy of destroying two large cities with hundreds of thousands of innocent people with nuclear bombs. I think this is more than enough reason for the Russians wish to protect themselves.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
scottLobster 6y ago
It's not so much the funding as the lack of disclosure of said funding. These researches were trying to hide their ties to China/foreign governments from the NIH. That's a pretty big red flag for all sorts of potential reasons.
yummypaint 6y ago
I dont see any problem either from a public health perspective. I suspect what they are trying to go after is chinese institutions scooping US researchers through IP theft. I have heard this is a particular problem in medical research because everything is so commercially oriented. By comparison, i don't believe NNSA grants prevent researchers from receiving funding from elsewhere, and those grants are focused on nuclear technologies.
- komali2 6y ago
  But NIH is all published - how can you IP steal? Maybe you get it a year ahead of time I guess?
  - dominotw 6y ago
    direction of research is influenced by people participating in it. Chinese can pursue their own agenda with NIH funding.
  - unishark 6y ago
    If you scoop another researcher then you get the publication. Then the first thing you can do is ruin someone's year by publishing the fruits of their hard work before they do. They are screwed and you take the novel direction over. But for real IP, in the US if you publish something you get a year to patent it. In many other places you have to patent it before you publish. So if you get their info before they have published it yet you can file the patent first.
    - pkaye 6y ago
      > But for real IP, in the US if you publish something you get a year to patent it. In many other places you have to patent it before you publish. So if you get their info before they have published it yet you can file the patent first. The US used to be first-to-invent but now its also first-to-file like in the EU countries.
      - redis_mlc 6y ago
kordlessagain 6y ago
The danger is from group think, mostly. A SARS virus was modified a few years ago in a study done at the NIH. The modification was done to target mice receptors to get the virus in the cells where they could replicate. What they created was basically a Covid19 for rodents. Still digging for the link. Covid19 has fish DNA in it: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.29.925867v1.full.pdf https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.29.925867v1..... Many Asians already have the anitbody for the sugars embedded on the lipid shell (not the spikes, which also have sugars on them). That fish DNA encodes the spikes (which it appears to be in SARS as well). We've now confirmed that Asians are less affected then Whites, Blacks and Latinos by this disease, mostly due to ACE2 handling differences across the populations.
- magnio 6y ago
  > We've now confirmed that Asians are less affected then Whites, Blacks and Latinos by this disease, mostly due to ACE2 handling differences across the populations. Source? Something like this seem like very big news, and I haven't read anything about it. There are some studies suggesting that certain blood types might be more susceptible, but nothing about Asians vs. other ethnicities.
afrojack123 6y ago
The danger is a one way relationship exists. Science that Chinese government funds is not available to Americans.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

The danger is that people who are secretly funded by the Chinese government, and lie about it to the US government, might be flipped to foreign agents in case of conflict. The funding itself I agree isn't an issue, and the probe doesn't seem to have targeted people who were honest about it.

coliveira 6y ago
Communist scare all over again? Using this logic we should go over everywhere in the US to see who has ties to China just like they did in the 50s against the soviet union. Everyone knows how that ended...
- ipsocannibal 6y ago
  I think you can look at the actions and history of the CCP and be pretty wary of their intent and the methods they will use to get there. China estimates 16.5M died due to the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution brought millions more deaths. Fast forward to more recent events in tiananmen square, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, etc. and one can be easily made skeptical of the motives of the CCP.
  - Angeo34 6y ago
    If that's how you look at it the US must be the literal devil with China his junior in training.
    - ipsocannibal 6y ago
      And how exactly? What metrics are you baseing this claim upon. Name them and lets compare.
  - wonnage 6y ago
    it seems like your version of CPC is mostly interested in killing their own citizens; where's the harm to the US?
    - ipsocannibal 6y ago
      If you are willing to use mass killing as a political tool in you own country what will you be willing to resort to to achieve political ends with others?
- vikramkr 6y ago
  With the Russians getting nukes? That's how that ended. The red state's overreach and predudicial nature doesn't invalidate the reality that the USSR had spies that stole state secrets and important research. And if we were any good at our jobs, the US had a bunch of spies over there too. That's kind of what nation states in conflict do.
  - coliveira 6y ago
    In the history of the planet, only was rogue country had the villainy of destroying two large cities with hundreds of thousands of innocent people with nuclear bombs. I think this is more than enough reason for the Russians wish to protect themselves.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

scottLobster 6y ago

It's not so much the funding as the lack of disclosure of said funding. These researches were trying to hide their ties to China/foreign governments from the NIH. That's a pretty big red flag for all sorts of potential reasons.

yummypaint 6y ago

I dont see any problem either from a public health perspective. I suspect what they are trying to go after is chinese institutions scooping US researchers through IP theft. I have heard this is a particular problem in medical research because everything is so commercially oriented. By comparison, i don't believe NNSA grants prevent researchers from receiving funding from elsewhere, and those grants are focused on nuclear technologies.

komali2 6y ago
But NIH is all published - how can you IP steal? Maybe you get it a year ahead of time I guess?
- dominotw 6y ago
  direction of research is influenced by people participating in it. Chinese can pursue their own agenda with NIH funding.
- unishark 6y ago
  If you scoop another researcher then you get the publication. Then the first thing you can do is ruin someone's year by publishing the fruits of their hard work before they do. They are screwed and you take the novel direction over. But for real IP, in the US if you publish something you get a year to patent it. In many other places you have to patent it before you publish. So if you get their info before they have published it yet you can file the patent first.
  - pkaye 6y ago
    > But for real IP, in the US if you publish something you get a year to patent it. In many other places you have to patent it before you publish. So if you get their info before they have published it yet you can file the patent first. The US used to be first-to-invent but now its also first-to-file like in the EU countries.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago

kordlessagain 6y ago

The danger is from group think, mostly. A SARS virus was modified a few years ago in a study done at the NIH. The modification was done to target mice receptors to get the virus in the cells where they could replicate. What they created was basically a Covid19 for rodents. Still digging for the link. Covid19 has fish DNA in it: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.29.925867v1.full.pdf https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.29.925867v1..... Many Asians already have the anitbody for the sugars embedded on the lipid shell (not the spikes, which also have sugars on them). That fish DNA encodes the spikes (which it appears to be in SARS as well). We've now confirmed that Asians are less affected then Whites, Blacks and Latinos by this disease, mostly due to ACE2 handling differences across the populations.

magnio 6y ago
> We've now confirmed that Asians are less affected then Whites, Blacks and Latinos by this disease, mostly due to ACE2 handling differences across the populations. Source? Something like this seem like very big news, and I haven't read anything about it. There are some studies suggesting that certain blood types might be more susceptible, but nothing about Asians vs. other ethnicities.

afrojack123 6y ago

The danger is a one way relationship exists. Science that Chinese government funds is not available to Americans.