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> “Intentionally not making a statement is already political,” Dale wrote in the tweet No it’s not. And this reminds me of the Dictatorship of the small minori

by _b3dj 6y ago

> “Intentionally not making a statement is already political,” Dale wrote in the tweet No it’s not. And this reminds me of the Dictatorship of the small minority [0] from NN Taleb. There are small intolerant minorities who are extremely vocal on certain matters to the point their opinions resemble a dictatorship [0] https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nemothekid 6y ago
Almost every day on HN I read that multiple flavors of "FB/Palantir/Google/MS engineers who do nothing while Zuckerberg/USG/China invades more and more of our privacy are complicit in the cog that is Zuckerberg's ambition", but when it comes to race relations, suddenly engineers should be allowed to work in silence. I understand there's nuance, but I only hope the hivemind considers this nuance the next time they pile on Amazon engineers who decide to build facial recognition databases for the NSA.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  If the Recoil project were contributing to racism in the US, I think we all agree that would be a problem.
  - esperent 6y ago
    Connecting facial recognition software and racism seems to be earning you downvotes here. While racism is the hot button topic right now, widespread governmental and corporate (or indeed, private) use of facial recognition software is problematic for many reasons. Erosion of privacy, sexual and non-sexual harassment and stalking, racial profiling, gender profiling, profiling for membership of any other kind of group, cute Facebook apps tied to shadowy political organizations, even crazy dystopian inventions like the Chinese social credit scheme. This tech needs to be very strongly regulated, and soon. Anyone working in this field, and creating this type of software for companies with a historically weak moral compass, _should_ think deeply about their involvement.
    - musicale 6y ago
      Facial recognition may not work reliably if there is training data bias, which can be disadvantageous if you want it to work. And as you note it can also be used for reducing privacy at scale in a way that humans can't normally do on their own, for example personally identifying thousands of people in a crowd at a sporting event or political rally.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Recoil isn't facial recognition software, it's a React state management library. That's why the employee's conduct was so toxic here; the project he demanded a statement from just has nothing to do with racism in the first place.
- rjkennedy98 6y ago
  How does this even apply when it’s employees on the same company and team having disagreements?
- thrwaway69 6y ago
  There is a difference. They tell you to quit your job usually, not harass your coworkers into becoming your loud speaker for the cause.
- DenisM 6y ago
  HN is not a uniform group of people speaking with one voice. It's a group of different people with different opinions on different subjects who speak up at different times. It's tempting to personify things that are too complex to grasp in detail, but this roads lead nowhere.
- 908087 6y ago
  Building facial recognition databases for the NSA is not "staying silent", it's "actively participating".
guerrilla 6y ago
Assuming no mitigating circumstances for not speaking out, it literally is acceptance and tacit perpetuation of the status quo which is most certainly political. I'm not saying there were no mitigating circumstances nor condoning the person's behavior but they are clearly correct on that specific point. "It's not the violence of the few that scares me, it's the silence of the many." Martin Luther King, Jr.
- chipperyman573 6y ago
  The mitigating circumstances are the un-nessicary stress and responsibilities of dealing with anyone who doesn't 100% agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately these are pervasive on pretty much any platform you are on, so there's no good way around it.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    It's pretty necessary to deal with racism. It's life and death, in fact. The fewer who speak out, the more stress for everyone who abrogates their responsibility.
    - chipperyman573 6y ago
      You completly ignored everything that I said
      - guerrilla 6y ago
        That's a baseless accusation. I specifically refuted what you said with an argument that even used the words of your own response. To be even more clear, there are no known mitigating circumstances here and your excuses are not mitigating circumstances. See previous comment for argument.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- hidiegomariani 6y ago

by _b3dj 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nemothekid 6y ago

Almost every day on HN I read that multiple flavors of "FB/Palantir/Google/MS engineers who do nothing while Zuckerberg/USG/China invades more and more of our privacy are complicit in the cog that is Zuckerberg's ambition", but when it comes to race relations, suddenly engineers should be allowed to work in silence. I understand there's nuance, but I only hope the hivemind considers this nuance the next time they pile on Amazon engineers who decide to build facial recognition databases for the NSA.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
If the Recoil project were contributing to racism in the US, I think we all agree that would be a problem.
- esperent 6y ago
  Connecting facial recognition software and racism seems to be earning you downvotes here. While racism is the hot button topic right now, widespread governmental and corporate (or indeed, private) use of facial recognition software is problematic for many reasons. Erosion of privacy, sexual and non-sexual harassment and stalking, racial profiling, gender profiling, profiling for membership of any other kind of group, cute Facebook apps tied to shadowy political organizations, even crazy dystopian inventions like the Chinese social credit scheme. This tech needs to be very strongly regulated, and soon. Anyone working in this field, and creating this type of software for companies with a historically weak moral compass, _should_ think deeply about their involvement.
  - musicale 6y ago
    Facial recognition may not work reliably if there is training data bias, which can be disadvantageous if you want it to work. And as you note it can also be used for reducing privacy at scale in a way that humans can't normally do on their own, for example personally identifying thousands of people in a crowd at a sporting event or political rally.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Recoil isn't facial recognition software, it's a React state management library. That's why the employee's conduct was so toxic here; the project he demanded a statement from just has nothing to do with racism in the first place.
rjkennedy98 6y ago
How does this even apply when it’s employees on the same company and team having disagreements?
thrwaway69 6y ago
There is a difference. They tell you to quit your job usually, not harass your coworkers into becoming your loud speaker for the cause.
DenisM 6y ago
HN is not a uniform group of people speaking with one voice. It's a group of different people with different opinions on different subjects who speak up at different times. It's tempting to personify things that are too complex to grasp in detail, but this roads lead nowhere.
908087 6y ago
Building facial recognition databases for the NSA is not "staying silent", it's "actively participating".

guerrilla 6y ago

Assuming no mitigating circumstances for not speaking out, it literally is acceptance and tacit perpetuation of the status quo which is most certainly political. I'm not saying there were no mitigating circumstances nor condoning the person's behavior but they are clearly correct on that specific point. "It's not the violence of the few that scares me, it's the silence of the many." Martin Luther King, Jr.

chipperyman573 6y ago
The mitigating circumstances are the un-nessicary stress and responsibilities of dealing with anyone who doesn't 100% agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately these are pervasive on pretty much any platform you are on, so there's no good way around it.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  It's pretty necessary to deal with racism. It's life and death, in fact. The fewer who speak out, the more stress for everyone who abrogates their responsibility.
  - chipperyman573 6y ago
    You completly ignored everything that I said
    - guerrilla 6y ago
      That's a baseless accusation. I specifically refuted what you said with an argument that even used the words of your own response. To be even more clear, there are no known mitigating circumstances here and your excuses are not mitigating circumstances. See previous comment for argument.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
hidiegomariani 6y ago