9 ms·

The relationship between mindset and age (2017)

195 points by ricardomcgowan 6y ago

headalgorithm 6y ago
See discussion from 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532581
EGreg 6y ago
I find that I am the same as I was 10-15 years ago. But society is boxing me in with their expectations and with their carrots and sticks makes me act differently. I would run down the street as a kid. If I did that today, it would look weird. I would be sort of silly and upbeat about a lot of things. But as you get older, people expect you to talk slower and more seriously. And so on. A lot of it has to do with societal pressure and putting you in boxes by sex and age. Take this experiment... go somewhere no one knows your age and hang out with much younger people for like a week. See how your health is afterwards. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/age-is-just-a-number-believe-youre-younger-and-your-health-will-follow.html https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/age-is-ju... https://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-langers-reversing-aging-experiment-2015-4?amp https://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-langers-reversing-agin...
- mettamage 6y ago
  > I would run down the street as a kid. If I did that today, it would look weird. I still do this during early morning runs (when I have them). It definitely feels weird, but also a lot of fun. Most of the weird feeling indeed comes from "but what if they see me?"
- thepete2 6y ago
  I wish it would be normal and accepted for adults to play too. You can still be a responsible and grown-up person.
  - nomel 6y ago
    “Man child” is the label you’ll hear thrown around for that.
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    On the bright side, because it's not normal, it makes it easier to spot people who might be worth hanging out with. (like Dolphus Raymond with his paper bag, engaging with kids may provide useful cover for playful adults) "When Kelvin looked through the eyepiece he saw what was undoubtedly the phenomenon that Maxwell had described, but in addition there was the image of a little man dancing about ... Maxwell had achieved this by the addition of a zoetrope ... Kelvin could not help asking: 'What is the little man there for?' ... 'Just for fun, Thomson.'" https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fourier-analysis/ode-to-a-galvanometer/D6ADE60D396B492B0DB02288BCA6ADE1 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fourier-analysis/ode-to...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - stank345 6y ago
    This is a nice part about having kids. You get to play with them and be reminded about how fun it is (tag and climbing the jungle gym is still fun and so are legos!).
- troughway 6y ago
  Pursue art if anything. It will reset your psychological clock back a few decades and you will be able to do an activity with younger people without coming across as weird. If anything, a well rounded worldview brought upon by age is conducive to making art that has a grander, more truthful (not necessarily more factual) statement.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    I wouldn't worry too much about trying to make grander more truthful statements with art. Making things for the sake of making things will do. It doesn't even matter if you don't get better at it over time.
  - esperent 6y ago
    Make things (art, food, woodworking, gardens, anything) for the pure joy of creation and playfulness. That seems like a more surefire way to stay young than trying to make statements.
- danbolt 6y ago
  I found once I dropped certain stoic, masculine behaviours I felt expected from society I became more productive and a better person. There are a lot of people who show subtle hostility to me now (both men and women) but it's honestly not worth worrying what other people think. I'm way too relieved most days.
  - Linell 6y ago
    What are the behaviors?
    - danbolt 6y ago
      Off the top of my head, the things I do more now are: - putting more effort into my appearance in nontraditional ways (eg: makeup, androgynous clothing, haircuts, etc.) - mentioning that I'm frustrated by something - acting naturally when people might be goading me into confrontational behaviour
    - aspaceman 6y ago
      Lot of folks get upset when men mention getting upset at something. Ex. "That hurt my feelings." "I don't like that you said that." "That made me happy." "Wow I feel great." Etc. Men are commonly expected to be stoic and not express such things and just "go about their day". If they don't, it's viewed as dramatic and over-expressive. It's interpreted as immaturity, imo.
  - eebynight 6y ago
    "...stoic, masculine behaviors I felt expected from society..." I don't know what society you live in, but being stoic and masculine seems quite rare these days and is often frowned upon...
    - jaynetics 6y ago
      GP probably meant the pressure not to show weakness or emotion, which I'd say is still more commonly internalized by men.
    - 6y ago
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  I've found that it was in my youth that I most cared what other people thought. The older I get, the less I care about it.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
> psychologist Ellen Langer and her students carefully refurbished an old monastery in Peterborough, New Hampshire, to resemble a place that would have existed two decades earlier. They invited a group of elderly men in their late 70s and early 80s to spend a week with them and live as they did in 1959, Has this study been replicated? Every time I see a psychology study that is used as the basis of some popular article by some journalist, I get suspicious.
- brianberns 6y ago
  Agreed. I’m also dubious about the control group who were merely “reminiscing”. Seems ripe for researcher-induced bias.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  Of course not. Like all things too good to be true, it most probably is. Criticism section on the researcher's Wikipedia page is worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Langer#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Langer#Criticism
  - jessriedel 6y ago
    Yikes: > ...Langer claimed that when elderly men were temporarily placed in a setting that recreated their past, their health improved, and they even looked younger. However, this study was never published in a peer-reviewed journal. The only publication of this finding is in a chapter of a book edited by Langer. > ... Langer described the week-long paid adult counterclockwise retreats she was creating in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, aimed towards replicating the effects found in her New Hampshire study. ... "Langer makes no apologies for the paid retreats, nor for what will be their steep price." Langer was defiant when pressed on the ethics of her study: "To my question of whether such a nakedly commercial venture will undermine her academic credibility, Langer rolled her eyes a bit. 'Look, I’m not 40 years old. I’ve paid my dues, and there’s nothing wrong with making this more widely available to people, since I deeply believe it.'" I'm bummed Nautilus is publishing this. They ought to know better.
SeanFerree 6y ago
Awesome read!!
every 6y ago
Old person here (+7 decades). Not much you can do about physical deterioration. The only thing I've found you can easily carry into old age is (assuming no senility or debilitating disease) coordination. One can be weak and frail yet still somewhat graceful. As for the mind, it depends on when it freezes in time. If you find yourself comparing everything current to the "good old days", then you are probably lost. But as long as you have an appetite for the new and unfamiliar (maybe something like ycombinator) then there is possibly still hope...
- m463 6y ago
  Remember when computers didn't hook to the internet for everything?
  - every 6y ago
    I was in college when unix was invented...
    - AtHeartEngineer 6y ago
      Given your grander temporal experience, do you have any predictions/foresight into how the world is changing? It feels like we are being wound up to be shot out of a cannon if I'm being honest.
      - every 6y ago
        Given my experience, it will be more of the same only different. Adaptability is a virtue...
- ramraj07 6y ago
  Do you have advice on how to keep your intellect intact? Many of my older relatives can barely think through things at 0.1x the speed they had even a decade back, if they even bother to think through anything. However, very old people in academia seemed to remain very sharp well into their seventies (some study suggested that they can be as sharp as a regular 25 yo). I guess it's good to keep reading and constantly use your brain, but any more solid actionable habits might be useful!
squarefoot 6y ago
I wanted to play drums since I was 10, but being the one who procrastinates dreams for decades before doing something, I had to wait to reach above 50 to finally start taking lessons. Playing already keyboards and bass of course was beneficial, also I already knew how to do a few things on the drums, but nothing serious. All I can say is it helped a lot, both the body and the mind. I had to stop both practicing and taking lessons during the early pandemic lockdown, and in a few weeks I clearly felt the negative effects.
nprateem 6y ago
I decided a year or two ago that I have 2 ages, my chronological age and my biological age. I feel and tell people the latter, which is about 5 years younger than my chronological age. It really does make a difference and I feel younger. I refuse to accept the stereotypes of my age group. When a birthday comes round I decide whether to increase my biological age. I see this as no different to people who choose their gender based on how they feel.
- Hermel 6y ago
  It’s still lying.
  - TomMarius 6y ago
    Actually biological clock can be measured and indeed can differ by quite a lot of years.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      "Measured" with pretty large error bars. As far as I know we don't have all that many reliable markers that predict remaining lifespan.
      - TomMarius 6y ago
        Nowadays, we have a few. I am watching /r/longevity for news of relevant research, if you're interested. > remaining lifespan Not remaining, but lived through
  - feanaro 6y ago
    Is it important?
    - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
      Honestly, yes, to a point. If I hired someone and found out they lied about their age, I couldn't trust them again. If I were dating someone, I'd leave. I'd never trust the person again because the age is such a silly thing to lie about and I'd assume that their speech is riddled with other untruths.
archived22 6y ago
https://www.oldest.org/sports/marathon-runners/ https://www.oldest.org/sports/marathon-runners/ People had run/are running marathon in 70-90s age group. Hack, the oldest runner was 102 year old. May be we can do lot better, if we force ourselves to stay active. Mark Twain said it better - "Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.".
- archived22 6y ago
  >> Still, the message seems to be that our chronological age really is just a number. “If people think that because they are getting older they cannot do things, or cut their social ties, or incorporate this negative view which limits their life, that can be really detrimental,” says Terracciano. “Fighting those negative attitudes, challenging yourself, keeping an open mind, being engaged socially, can absolutely have a positive impact.” And this.

See discussion from 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14532581

I find that I am the same as I was 10-15 years ago. But society is boxing me in with their expectations and with their carrots and sticks makes me act differently. I would run down the street as a kid. If I did that today, it would look weird. I would be sort of silly and upbeat about a lot of things. But as you get older, people expect you to talk slower and more seriously. And so on. A lot of it has to do with societal pressure and putting you in boxes by sex and age. Take this experiment... go somewhere no one knows your age and hang out with much younger people for like a week. See how your health is afterwards. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/age-is-just-a-number-believe-youre-younger-and-your-health-will-follow.html https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/age-is-ju... https://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-langers-reversing-aging-experiment-2015-4?amp https://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-langers-reversing-agin...

mettamage 6y ago
> I would run down the street as a kid. If I did that today, it would look weird. I still do this during early morning runs (when I have them). It definitely feels weird, but also a lot of fun. Most of the weird feeling indeed comes from "but what if they see me?"
thepete2 6y ago
I wish it would be normal and accepted for adults to play too. You can still be a responsible and grown-up person.
- nomel 6y ago
  “Man child” is the label you’ll hear thrown around for that.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  On the bright side, because it's not normal, it makes it easier to spot people who might be worth hanging out with. (like Dolphus Raymond with his paper bag, engaging with kids may provide useful cover for playful adults) "When Kelvin looked through the eyepiece he saw what was undoubtedly the phenomenon that Maxwell had described, but in addition there was the image of a little man dancing about ... Maxwell had achieved this by the addition of a zoetrope ... Kelvin could not help asking: 'What is the little man there for?' ... 'Just for fun, Thomson.'" https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fourier-analysis/ode-to-a-galvanometer/D6ADE60D396B492B0DB02288BCA6ADE1 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fourier-analysis/ode-to...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- stank345 6y ago
  This is a nice part about having kids. You get to play with them and be reminded about how fun it is (tag and climbing the jungle gym is still fun and so are legos!).
troughway 6y ago
Pursue art if anything. It will reset your psychological clock back a few decades and you will be able to do an activity with younger people without coming across as weird. If anything, a well rounded worldview brought upon by age is conducive to making art that has a grander, more truthful (not necessarily more factual) statement.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  I wouldn't worry too much about trying to make grander more truthful statements with art. Making things for the sake of making things will do. It doesn't even matter if you don't get better at it over time.
- esperent 6y ago
  Make things (art, food, woodworking, gardens, anything) for the pure joy of creation and playfulness. That seems like a more surefire way to stay young than trying to make statements.
danbolt 6y ago
I found once I dropped certain stoic, masculine behaviours I felt expected from society I became more productive and a better person. There are a lot of people who show subtle hostility to me now (both men and women) but it's honestly not worth worrying what other people think. I'm way too relieved most days.
- Linell 6y ago
  What are the behaviors?
  - danbolt 6y ago
    Off the top of my head, the things I do more now are: - putting more effort into my appearance in nontraditional ways (eg: makeup, androgynous clothing, haircuts, etc.) - mentioning that I'm frustrated by something - acting naturally when people might be goading me into confrontational behaviour
  - aspaceman 6y ago
    Lot of folks get upset when men mention getting upset at something. Ex. "That hurt my feelings." "I don't like that you said that." "That made me happy." "Wow I feel great." Etc. Men are commonly expected to be stoic and not express such things and just "go about their day". If they don't, it's viewed as dramatic and over-expressive. It's interpreted as immaturity, imo.
- eebynight 6y ago
  "...stoic, masculine behaviors I felt expected from society..." I don't know what society you live in, but being stoic and masculine seems quite rare these days and is often frowned upon...
  - jaynetics 6y ago
    GP probably meant the pressure not to show weakness or emotion, which I'd say is still more commonly internalized by men.
  - 6y ago
pmoriarty 6y ago
I've found that it was in my youth that I most cared what other people thought. The older I get, the less I care about it.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago

> psychologist Ellen Langer and her students carefully refurbished an old monastery in Peterborough, New Hampshire, to resemble a place that would have existed two decades earlier. They invited a group of elderly men in their late 70s and early 80s to spend a week with them and live as they did in 1959, Has this study been replicated? Every time I see a psychology study that is used as the basis of some popular article by some journalist, I get suspicious.

brianberns 6y ago
Agreed. I’m also dubious about the control group who were merely “reminiscing”. Seems ripe for researcher-induced bias.
smnrchrds 6y ago
Of course not. Like all things too good to be true, it most probably is. Criticism section on the researcher's Wikipedia page is worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Langer#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Langer#Criticism
- jessriedel 6y ago
  Yikes: > ...Langer claimed that when elderly men were temporarily placed in a setting that recreated their past, their health improved, and they even looked younger. However, this study was never published in a peer-reviewed journal. The only publication of this finding is in a chapter of a book edited by Langer. > ... Langer described the week-long paid adult counterclockwise retreats she was creating in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, aimed towards replicating the effects found in her New Hampshire study. ... "Langer makes no apologies for the paid retreats, nor for what will be their steep price." Langer was defiant when pressed on the ethics of her study: "To my question of whether such a nakedly commercial venture will undermine her academic credibility, Langer rolled her eyes a bit. 'Look, I’m not 40 years old. I’ve paid my dues, and there’s nothing wrong with making this more widely available to people, since I deeply believe it.'" I'm bummed Nautilus is publishing this. They ought to know better.

SeanFerree 6y ago

Awesome read!!

every 6y ago

Old person here (+7 decades). Not much you can do about physical deterioration. The only thing I've found you can easily carry into old age is (assuming no senility or debilitating disease) coordination. One can be weak and frail yet still somewhat graceful. As for the mind, it depends on when it freezes in time. If you find yourself comparing everything current to the "good old days", then you are probably lost. But as long as you have an appetite for the new and unfamiliar (maybe something like ycombinator) then there is possibly still hope...

m463 6y ago
Remember when computers didn't hook to the internet for everything?
- every 6y ago
  I was in college when unix was invented...
  - AtHeartEngineer 6y ago
    Given your grander temporal experience, do you have any predictions/foresight into how the world is changing? It feels like we are being wound up to be shot out of a cannon if I'm being honest.
    - every 6y ago
      Given my experience, it will be more of the same only different. Adaptability is a virtue...
ramraj07 6y ago
Do you have advice on how to keep your intellect intact? Many of my older relatives can barely think through things at 0.1x the speed they had even a decade back, if they even bother to think through anything. However, very old people in academia seemed to remain very sharp well into their seventies (some study suggested that they can be as sharp as a regular 25 yo). I guess it's good to keep reading and constantly use your brain, but any more solid actionable habits might be useful!

squarefoot 6y ago

I wanted to play drums since I was 10, but being the one who procrastinates dreams for decades before doing something, I had to wait to reach above 50 to finally start taking lessons. Playing already keyboards and bass of course was beneficial, also I already knew how to do a few things on the drums, but nothing serious. All I can say is it helped a lot, both the body and the mind. I had to stop both practicing and taking lessons during the early pandemic lockdown, and in a few weeks I clearly felt the negative effects.

nprateem 6y ago

I decided a year or two ago that I have 2 ages, my chronological age and my biological age. I feel and tell people the latter, which is about 5 years younger than my chronological age. It really does make a difference and I feel younger. I refuse to accept the stereotypes of my age group. When a birthday comes round I decide whether to increase my biological age. I see this as no different to people who choose their gender based on how they feel.

Hermel 6y ago
It’s still lying.
- TomMarius 6y ago
  Actually biological clock can be measured and indeed can differ by quite a lot of years.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    "Measured" with pretty large error bars. As far as I know we don't have all that many reliable markers that predict remaining lifespan.
    - TomMarius 6y ago
      Nowadays, we have a few. I am watching /r/longevity for news of relevant research, if you're interested. > remaining lifespan Not remaining, but lived through
- feanaro 6y ago
  Is it important?
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    Honestly, yes, to a point. If I hired someone and found out they lied about their age, I couldn't trust them again. If I were dating someone, I'd leave. I'd never trust the person again because the age is such a silly thing to lie about and I'd assume that their speech is riddled with other untruths.

archived22 6y ago

https://www.oldest.org/sports/marathon-runners/ https://www.oldest.org/sports/marathon-runners/ People had run/are running marathon in 70-90s age group. Hack, the oldest runner was 102 year old. May be we can do lot better, if we force ourselves to stay active. Mark Twain said it better - "Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.".

archived22 6y ago
>> Still, the message seems to be that our chronological age really is just a number. “If people think that because they are getting older they cannot do things, or cut their social ties, or incorporate this negative view which limits their life, that can be really detrimental,” says Terracciano. “Fighting those negative attitudes, challenging yourself, keeping an open mind, being engaged socially, can absolutely have a positive impact.” And this.