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iPad 2: Thoughts from a first time tablet user
- joe_bleau 16y agoThis site forces my browser (Opera) into a (roughly) 1Hz reload loop. Nasty. No wonder I normally surf with javascript off!
- PStamatiou 16y agoHrm, any debug info would be helpful. I'm only running Disqus, analytics, cabel's fancyzoom.js and typekit.
- acqq 16y agoWhat more info do you need? If it wasn't obvious, you are supposed to open your site in the Opera browser, making sure Javascript is turned on. You'll see how it just can't load.
- PStamatiou 16y agoI was asking for additional info because I can't reproduce the problem in Opera (11/OS X).
- acqq 16y agoSitting in Europe (ping time 107 ms to your site), using Opera 11.01 on Windows XP I see the behavior joe_bleau described -- in the URL bar there's constant reloading visible when Javascript is turned on.
- PStamatiou 16y agois it disqus polling?
- pbhjpbhj 16y agoLooks fine for me in Op11 on Kubuntu.
- morrow 16y agoI just had the same problem (redirect loop), but not on your page, I hit it on the link next to yours on the front page: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2350430 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2350430. Maybe he confused the two?
- ayb 16y agohttp://www.google.com/chrome http://www.google.com/chrome
- mariusmg 16y agoReplacement for consoles ? Come on...maybe only if you're a Sunday gamer.
- citricsquid 16y agoWhich I believe is a large portion of the Wii market, correct? I wonder how Nintendo are reacting to this.
- glhaynes 16y agoHow Nintendo is reacting: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33595/Interview_Reggie_FilsAime_On_Garage_Devs_And_The_Value_Of_Software.php http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33595/Interview_Reggie_Fi... "I would separate out the true independent developer vs. the hobbyist," says Fils-Aime. "We are absolutely reaching out to the independent developer." "Where we've drawn the line is we are not looking to do business today with the garage developer. In our view, that’s not a business we want to pursue."
- dsplittgerber 16y agoPotential market for people willing to shell over $40 for a game? Potential market for people willing to try on a whim that bird game the whole office has been talking about? Serious gamers will probably always stick with the most advanced gameplay and technology. But there is a _huge_ market for people who have a few minutes to kill on trips, during commute, in front of the tv etc. As games are increasingly made with cognitive reward cycles in mind, one could argue, that the percentage of people who never play will shrink ever more.
- estel 16y agoBut that (quite rightly) speaks of a new market for people willing to try some bird game on a whim: not a replacement for other gaming experiences that mobile is a long way from challenging. It's Nintendo's hold of the portable market with this week's 3DS that seems most tenable and vulnerable to the proliferation of gaming on phones and tablets; I think we're a long way off of MSFT being worried about the 360.
- cletus 16y agoI fully agree that the iPad will increasingly encroach on the console games market. That may sound crazy but hear me out. 1. Already the graphics on the iPad 2 are pretty good. I would argue they're sufficiently good and only getting better (with better software and successive generations of hardware); 2. 3D realism has I think overshot the mark. Nintendo has proven--and continues to proven--that you don't need the latest and greatest 3D engine to sell consoles and games. Remember too that many people are nostalgic about arcade games and systems from the 80s and 90s; 3. Increased realism in games has really blown out art costs. I would argue that art now constitutes the majority of even big budget titles. The more realistic games get the higher this cost. Improved tooling has mitigated this somewhat but the cost continues to rise. There is significant economic incentive for game producers to curtail art costs by developing on lower-spec platforms. 3. The iPad is a multi-purpose device so, ultimately, more people are likely to buy it or devices like it than consoles (IMHO). Console makers continue to stretch the capabilities of consoles (adding VoD services like Netflix, etc) but ultimately it's still a TV. The iPad is a computer (albeit one with limitations). This will however take time. I've been saying for the last year--and I continue to say--Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft should all be scared about the iPad.
- MatthewPhillips 16y agoThose big budget games you're talking about make a gagillion dollars every time they get released. The iPad will never touch that market because the controls aren't nearly as good.
- TillE 16y agoIf Apple wanted to get serious about challenging console games, they could make their own Bluetooth gamepad and push out a small software update to support it. You could put the iPad on a table or hook up the output to a TV and play it like any console. All you need is the controller and a driver.
- joebadmo 16y agoI don't know about this. Hook up a &500 iPad to power and to your TV and pair it with the bt gamepad every time you want to play a console game? As opposed to a <$300 device that's always hooked up to the TV and controllers? I'd say the Apple TV is a much better contender for this market. But still isn't really technically able to push the blow-out titles that the gp is talking about. Not even close, since both the iPad and ATV are on low power ARM processors, while modern high end consoles are basically full-fledged desktop PCs.
- geuis 16y agoThose big budget games also cost a gagillion dollars to make. My buddy worked at EA for a year. He would tell me stories of how they can spend over $50 million on a game and it makes $52 million worldwide. And EA is a billion dollar company. They consider that at best a break-even game and possibly a loser. That same buddy now works at Microsoft. Do you realize that MS doesn't make money on hardware, on the xbox units themselves? I think they just started breaking even on the hardware in the last few months with that. That's 6 years of a top-selling product that they have lost money on. Meanwhile, they make something like $1.5 billion a year just on Xbox Live subscriptions, and more money on the licensing fees for games. I don't have any numbers for that. Now also consider, as of April 2010 MS had sold 40 million Xbox 360's (http://kotaku.com/#!5522559/xbox-360-40-million-sold http://kotaku.com/#!5522559/xbox-360-40-million-sold). That's over the course of 5 years. Meanwhile, Apple has sold at least 50 million iPhones in 2010 (http://www.macstories.net/news/47-million-iphones-sold-in-2010-first-2011-shipments-to-include-cdma-iphone/ http://www.macstories.net/news/47-million-iphones-sold-in-20...), 15 million iPads in its first year (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/20results.html http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/20results.html) and another 1 million iPad 2s in its first week. There have been 47.9 million Playstation 3's sold since November 2006 (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps3_sale_e.html http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps3_sale_e.html). Taken separately, the 2 popular consoles have taken 5-6 years to rival the number of units sold by Apple in a little over a year. If we take into account the number of iPhones and iPod Touches sold in previous years, its a safe comparison to say that Apple alone has an equal or larger number of units sold compared to consoles, at least in shear numbers. To top that off, estimates are that iPads alone will push 50 million by the end of the year, and who knows how many iPhone 5's will sell when it launches. So the market almost always wins. Developers go where the money is. On the one hand you have the existing console market that has, for the sake of argument, 100 million units worldwide. On the other, you have the iOS combined platform of roughly the same or more number of shear units. Consoles: 1) Expensive games ~$60 USD 2) Locked into your house. e.g. You can only play in front of your tv. 3) Limited utility, games, movies 4) Better controls for first person shooters. Crappy controls for Angry birds. 5) Amazing, if expensive, graphics. Sometimes. In fact, lots of $60 games kind of look like crap. iOS (iPhones, iPads, iPod touches): 1) Inexpensive games $0.99-$10 (averages) 2) Portable. Can take it anywhere 3) Lots of utility. Phone calls, text messages, games, camera, video, GPS, shopping, movies, music, etc. 4) Crappy controls for first person shooters. Perfect controls for Angry Birds. 5) Median graphics. Not Crysis or Farcry level. But high-level of quality control and the best games look pretty good. There's a lot of other reasons I can go into, but basically I'm trying to demonstrate that "better controls" have nothing to do with it. Better graphics have little to do with it. You can buy like 10-20 games on your iPhone and/or iPad instead of 1 game on your xbox or playstation. And you can take them with you anywhere. And the market is a hell of a lot bigger, so you can sell more $5 games than you can $50 games. 1) Its cheaper to develop for iPhones/iPads/Android devices than consoles 2) There's more iPhones/iPads/Androids out there to sell to. Lots of people that aren't interested in consoles buy smart phones and tablets. Everyone loves to play games. 3) MUCH lower barrier to entry to make apps and games for iOS and Android then Xbox or Playstation.
- mikeklaas 16y agoPretty cool to see a screenshot of my app, Zite. Feel free to ask any question or suggest areas to improve!
- jokermatt999 16y agoThe best way of thinking about it that I've found: Did Flash games kill the PC gaming market? No. Will iOS/Android/etc games kill console games? No. Perhaps they'll encroach on the handheld market (PSP, 3DS), but I don't think they've got the same "depth" that most console and PC games do. Don't get me wrong, it's a lucrative market to be in, and it seems much easier to break into for most developers (although indie PC gaming is also a good size scene) than traditional console/handheld development. I just really, really am not convinced that they'll kill off console games. I've never heard someone who's actually a more hardcore "gamer" entertain the notion, and that makes me think that most people making these claims don't understand the market for them whatsoever.
- Stormbringer 16y agoPersonally I think historically one of the problems with Flash games was getting paid. Most people would love the revenue stream from an ad supported version of Bejeweled... but what else in Flash games is there that makes money? There's farming games on Facebook I guess, but to read the devs blogs you'd think it was a never ending series of the playing field being moved all the time, and dodgy APIs. To monetize their skills most of the Flash devs I know went to work for ad agencies, or switched to a different language and Flash became a hobby. I think this is one of the "eleven secret herbs and spices" of iOS development, why they had an absolutely massive number of devs and apps, because there was this pent up demand from the indie devs, and no really good or easy way to fulfill it. -- You say "perhaps they (the iOS and Android games) will encroach on the handheld market (PSP, 3DS)" I'm confused, didn't that already happen? Haven't the handhelds been in a death spiral since the iPod Touch took off big time?
- lg 16y agoSpeaking of scroll speed, I didn't buy the first iPad because I mostly cared about it as a pdf reader and the resolution sucked too much. w/the ipad 2 the resolution still sucks so I figured it'd be no change. But when I used it in the store yesterday, scroll and zoom were so fast and seamless (even on 70-odd page pdf's in the browser reader) that I had no problem reading. Seriously considering one now.
- glhaynes 16y agoYeah, I've found that the increased speed makes me more likely to [happily, successfully] use it for more "laptop things" than I did the old one. Having a Smart Cover that props it up well for typing sure doesn't hurt any, either.
- saidulislam 16y agoI just ordered mine. I am not so thrilled about it. I ordered it mainly because I want to develop some apps for it. I did play with it few time at the local BestBuy and at friend's. I don't see anything special in it besides being a newer bigger iPod. Graphics? Yes it's better (in fact better than all other tablets) but were you really able to see the difference. What about the average folks? Do you think they will be able to see the difference. I am picky but not that picky. Duo Core? Big deal. Many other tablets are featuring the same. The one I played with at Best Buy had all the popular apps loaded. Angry Bird was not so smooth with swipe action. Home screen swipe was fine. Still not so buttery to me. Thinner? Yes but it's not as impressive as Kindle or Nook. If it was that thinner I would be like oh yea. 2 cameras? Isn't this about time? Apple is behind on this. Most of the Android tablets had them from day one. Having said all that, it is still a nice toy. It definitely changed our mobile experience. Netbooks look so dead or even Laptops look so outdated compared to the tablets these days. I don't see it as a game machine. Instead, it will be another entertaining in it's space. We will browse sites, take notes, look up howtos, share stories, photos, videos, listen to audio books and read books to our kids like never before. Android or something similar will lead the market space eventually unless Apple becomes open. However, iPad will still be seen as the trend setter for a while.
- Stormbringer 16y agoI think the moral of the story is that there is no point in going gaga over the numbers that hardware manufacturers serve up unless and until you can get your hands on the actual device (whether that be phone, netbook, CPU, GPU or plain old desktop) and try it out for yourself. I think this is a problem that has long been embedded in tech journalism. We go all breathless over an extra 10% mega this or giga that, but 99% of the time that extra 10% doesn't matter. But if they weren't getting excited over the latest fraction of an increment, what would they report on?