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I sunk many hours of my life into this beautiful, beautiful game (starting at the tail end of 1.5, however!) and sometimes tune in to watch CS:GO competitive ma

I sunk many hours of my life into this beautiful, beautiful game (starting at the tail end of 1.5, however!) and sometimes tune in to watch CS:GO competitive matches. I know Valorant is apparently stepping up as a spiritual successor to Counter-Strike, but I just love this game for it's emphasis on pure skill, and I really am surprised few other games have come as close as 1.6 to perfecting a team-based FPS that lands all players on an almost perfectly level playing field.

chaostheory 6y ago
Pavlov IMO is the spiritual successor
- capableweb 6y ago
  Seems to be a VR game, so unless VR suddenly gets a lot cheaper and a lot better, Pavlov will never replace CS. Looking at the first few seconds of the first video on Steam for Pavlov (https://store.steampowered.com/app/555160/Pavlov_VR/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/555160/Pavlov_VR/) shows a very low-skilled encounter as well. If they are trying to attract CS players, they need to show it's a game that shows skills, not like that.
  - kbenson 6y ago
    > shows a very low-skilled encounter as well That might be the difference between having to actually aim your gun with hands in front of you, and flicking your reticle to a location with a mouse. > unless VR suddenly gets a lot cheaper and a lot better, Pavlov will never replace CS. Not that I think it will ever replace CS, but I think you can side-load Pavlov onto a Quest, and that's not necessarily a high cost of entry depending on what you compare it to. For a casual player, that's probably a lot of money. For people more serious about gaming, that might be equivalent to a few optional upgrades to their mouse and keyboard. Interesting to me is that it opens up some interesting competitive options, where you could ensure people are all on equivalent equipment, if for example you have a Quest tournament.
  - baby 6y ago
    VR is 400$ with the oculus quest, no computer needed, no TV needed. Considering that, it's a bit more expensive than the nintendo switch, and cheaper than pretty much all consoles and PC gaming. I just played Pavlov on it and it works flawlessly, I'm not sure I get your comment.
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    I feel that you should actually play the game before having such a strong opinion. The store video doesnt reflect most gameplay.
- koiz 6y ago
  Hell no. The game is basically becoming some garrys mod hybrid mess. https://store.steampowered.com/app/496240/Onward/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/496240/Onward/ Onward is way better experience.
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    It’s just VR counterstrike with tons of maps and mods. That’s a good thing because it shows that it has a big community. I also like Onward better, but Onward is more like a realistic military sim than a spiritual Counter Strike
strbean 6y ago
Unfortunately, it seems like Riot plans to take the same approach they do with League of Legends, and introduce new agents consistently and frequently. With the need for unique and interesting abilities to drive interest, Valorant will end up being much closer to Overwatch than CS.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- chrischen 6y ago
  I would say it’s still fundamentally different from overwatch in that players who prefer CS-style may not like Overwatch but would like Valorant. Overwatch is much more abilities-heavy while Valorant is still more aiming heavy.
  - kodt 6y ago
    I think CS will keep its popularity. Only players who can't cut it at a high level in CS are bailing to Valorant.
    - smabie 6y ago
      You mean like Skadoodle?
      - llama052 6y ago
        or Hiko for that matter.
        burmanm 6y ago
        So instead of "couldn't make it top", we're talking about players "who couldn't stay at the top" ?
        Retric 6y ago
JakeTheAndroid 6y ago
While plenty of people will likely move over to Valorant, as someone who's played a bit I think there is still a distinct difference between the two games. The main thing shared between the two is the feel while shooting. It's hard to explain, but you feel the "weight" of the gun and it's rate of fire really well and it's satisfying when you land shots. But, the abilities, while not overly broken, does change the feel and strategy considerably. And Valorant maps are really bad in comparison to CSGO. So much useless space, bad angles, etc. So, while I hope Valorant pushes CS to get better, it's unlikely that the pool of players or viewers will be 1:1. The CS pros moving to Valorant are basically doing so because they either can't have a CS career (Brax, perma ban for match fixing; iBuyPower) or haven't been good enough in a while/never were good enough for a T1 CSGO team.
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  Valorant is already dying. I doubt it will do anything to displace CSGO. If anything the toxic and racist community GabeN has cultivated will do CSGO in before a competitor will best them in gameplay.
  - ta17711771 6y ago
    Seriously sick of hearing this. The Internet has been "toxic and racist" since, oh, the first chat room... Kiddies in a game can't hurt you. Worry about the important shit, like being killed or thrown in a cage by law enforcement.
    - AlexMax 6y ago
      > The Internet has been "toxic and racist" since, oh, the first chat room... In any respectable community, those sorts of people tend to get unceremoniously ejected from the community - from IRC channels to web forums to community-run game servers of old. Now, games are match-made and game companies are pretty much forced to exercise discretion about what kind of community they want to have playing their game. Personally, I no longer have the patience for losing 30+ minutes of my life to a game that was lost because there's a 3-stack on my team who do nothing but throw, team-kill and think they're the height of comedy because they say offensive things or have a swastika as their profile picture.
nthitz 6y ago
What areas does CS:GO fall short in when compared to 1.6?
- ericzawo 6y ago
  No one thing, specifically. Maybe it's just a muscle-memory thing, but I think the early 2000's polygonal PC graphics look lends well to knowing about hitboxes, certain techniques like defending against BHoPpers and it's overall response. But, to be fair, I've never played CS:GO on a 240hz monitor with a gaming rig (my laptop manages all low and I still do well when I wanna scrim Dust2 :) but there's something about 1.6 that just feels, almost arcade-y? This could all be nostalgia talking. I love CS:GO, but it is getting a bit dated now, too!
- doc_gunthrop 6y ago
  If bunny-hopping was eliminated in CS:GO, that might be considered an improvement for some (and not so much for others).
- caymanjim 6y ago
  There's not a lot of difference in gameplay, but CSGO destroyed the sense of community and enabled toxic players. Prior to CSGO, there was a vibrant community of player-hosted servers, run by clans. The best of them had active admins who would kick/ban cheaters, trolls, and toxic people. It was hard to find good community servers, but once you did, it felt like home. It's much easier to get into a match now, due to the automatic matchmaking and different playstyle and skill grouping options, but the communities are gone. You can still run a private server, but hardly anyone does. I used to be in a half-dozen clans and now I'm in zero.
  - derekdahmer 6y ago
    Community in gaming is still just as strong it's just shifted from custom servers to discord servers. Back in the day I remember mailing $10 every month to someone splitting hosting costs on our clan's 1.6 CS server. It felt like a clubhouse I'd pop into after school to hang out with all my online friends. Nowadays I get the same experience from joining voice chat in my regular Discord channel with people I know, then grouping up with whoever's online for a few comp or quick play overwatch games.
ngold 6y ago
I still play source. I could never get into go. Not sure what modding scene go has, but there are a ton of great mod servers in source. Zombie escape gets ridiculous.
- Galaco 6y ago
  I didn’t expect to see another CSS Ze player, given there’s so few of us now. There’s a good chance we play together! Thousands of hours spent playing and making maps, I wouldn’t trade them for the world.
treebornfrog 6y ago
Yes it's a shame, I have so many fond memories of playing condition zero. Used to switch between playing CS:CZ, frontpage and photoshop. Back when PSD slicing was a thing.
anoraca 6y ago
Valorant appears to me to be an uninspired clone with a few gimmicks and a lot of marketing money behind it. It's the same way that LoL was a clone of DotA with extra marketing and a few gimmicks. I don't understand why anyone knowledgeable would be installing a "free" game that includes a kernel level rootkit. https://www.techspot.com/news/84841-valorant-anti-cheat-software-loads-kernel-based-driver.html https://www.techspot.com/news/84841-valorant-anti-cheat-soft...
- elefanten 6y ago
  1. Overwhelming majority of the (potential) player base is not "knowledgeable" as per your comment 2. It worked for LoL, which has made something like 10x the money of Dota 2. Valorant doesn't have to be "the best" in its category, as judged by connoiseurs, to win its market.
  - seabird 6y ago
    League was the first free derivative of the mod (Dota 2 was released nearly four years after it) and the complexity of the game was massively reduced to the extent that it's marketable in a way that Dota 2 just isn't. Valorant is trying to fight the incumbent while dealing with an inevitable balance trainwreck, and although Riot is going to throw a lot of money at it, it's not clear they realize how spoiled they were with the success of League. I'm sure the game will be around in a few years, but the odds of it largely supplanting CS don't look very good.
- AndriyKunitsyn 6y ago
  A kernel level rootkit is a usual form of an anti-cheat software nowadays (BattleEye, EAC). You can dislike it, you can question whether you can trust such software from a Tencent-owned company, but it doesn’t make Riot’s solution somehow different.
- Avicebron 6y ago
  I've seen Valorant blow up in my little circle of online content/professional gamer types. Personally I haven't taken to it, I think the graphics are not very inspiring and the game play seems derivative of almost every team vs team shooter in the last decade. That being said, marketing means a lot and if they flood the digital airwaves, they might just reach critical mass.
enahs-sf 6y ago
Thousands of hours gone to many a sleepless night of scoutzknivez with friends. Fond memories.

chaostheory 6y ago

Pavlov IMO is the spiritual successor

capableweb 6y ago
Seems to be a VR game, so unless VR suddenly gets a lot cheaper and a lot better, Pavlov will never replace CS. Looking at the first few seconds of the first video on Steam for Pavlov (https://store.steampowered.com/app/555160/Pavlov_VR/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/555160/Pavlov_VR/) shows a very low-skilled encounter as well. If they are trying to attract CS players, they need to show it's a game that shows skills, not like that.
- kbenson 6y ago
  > shows a very low-skilled encounter as well That might be the difference between having to actually aim your gun with hands in front of you, and flicking your reticle to a location with a mouse. > unless VR suddenly gets a lot cheaper and a lot better, Pavlov will never replace CS. Not that I think it will ever replace CS, but I think you can side-load Pavlov onto a Quest, and that's not necessarily a high cost of entry depending on what you compare it to. For a casual player, that's probably a lot of money. For people more serious about gaming, that might be equivalent to a few optional upgrades to their mouse and keyboard. Interesting to me is that it opens up some interesting competitive options, where you could ensure people are all on equivalent equipment, if for example you have a Quest tournament.
- baby 6y ago
  VR is 400$ with the oculus quest, no computer needed, no TV needed. Considering that, it's a bit more expensive than the nintendo switch, and cheaper than pretty much all consoles and PC gaming. I just played Pavlov on it and it works flawlessly, I'm not sure I get your comment.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  I feel that you should actually play the game before having such a strong opinion. The store video doesnt reflect most gameplay.
koiz 6y ago
Hell no. The game is basically becoming some garrys mod hybrid mess. https://store.steampowered.com/app/496240/Onward/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/496240/Onward/ Onward is way better experience.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  It’s just VR counterstrike with tons of maps and mods. That’s a good thing because it shows that it has a big community. I also like Onward better, but Onward is more like a realistic military sim than a spiritual Counter Strike

strbean 6y ago

Unfortunately, it seems like Riot plans to take the same approach they do with League of Legends, and introduce new agents consistently and frequently. With the need for unique and interesting abilities to drive interest, Valorant will end up being much closer to Overwatch than CS.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
chrischen 6y ago
I would say it’s still fundamentally different from overwatch in that players who prefer CS-style may not like Overwatch but would like Valorant. Overwatch is much more abilities-heavy while Valorant is still more aiming heavy.
- kodt 6y ago
  I think CS will keep its popularity. Only players who can't cut it at a high level in CS are bailing to Valorant.
  - smabie 6y ago
    You mean like Skadoodle?
    - llama052 6y ago
      or Hiko for that matter.
      - burmanm 6y ago
        So instead of "couldn't make it top", we're talking about players "who couldn't stay at the top" ?
        Retric 6y ago

JakeTheAndroid 6y ago

While plenty of people will likely move over to Valorant, as someone who's played a bit I think there is still a distinct difference between the two games. The main thing shared between the two is the feel while shooting. It's hard to explain, but you feel the "weight" of the gun and it's rate of fire really well and it's satisfying when you land shots. But, the abilities, while not overly broken, does change the feel and strategy considerably. And Valorant maps are really bad in comparison to CSGO. So much useless space, bad angles, etc. So, while I hope Valorant pushes CS to get better, it's unlikely that the pool of players or viewers will be 1:1. The CS pros moving to Valorant are basically doing so because they either can't have a CS career (Brax, perma ban for match fixing; iBuyPower) or haven't been good enough in a while/never were good enough for a T1 CSGO team.

birdyrooster 6y ago
Valorant is already dying. I doubt it will do anything to displace CSGO. If anything the toxic and racist community GabeN has cultivated will do CSGO in before a competitor will best them in gameplay.
- ta17711771 6y ago
  Seriously sick of hearing this. The Internet has been "toxic and racist" since, oh, the first chat room... Kiddies in a game can't hurt you. Worry about the important shit, like being killed or thrown in a cage by law enforcement.
  - AlexMax 6y ago
    > The Internet has been "toxic and racist" since, oh, the first chat room... In any respectable community, those sorts of people tend to get unceremoniously ejected from the community - from IRC channels to web forums to community-run game servers of old. Now, games are match-made and game companies are pretty much forced to exercise discretion about what kind of community they want to have playing their game. Personally, I no longer have the patience for losing 30+ minutes of my life to a game that was lost because there's a 3-stack on my team who do nothing but throw, team-kill and think they're the height of comedy because they say offensive things or have a swastika as their profile picture.

nthitz 6y ago

What areas does CS:GO fall short in when compared to 1.6?

ericzawo 6y ago
No one thing, specifically. Maybe it's just a muscle-memory thing, but I think the early 2000's polygonal PC graphics look lends well to knowing about hitboxes, certain techniques like defending against BHoPpers and it's overall response. But, to be fair, I've never played CS:GO on a 240hz monitor with a gaming rig (my laptop manages all low and I still do well when I wanna scrim Dust2 :) but there's something about 1.6 that just feels, almost arcade-y? This could all be nostalgia talking. I love CS:GO, but it is getting a bit dated now, too!
doc_gunthrop 6y ago
If bunny-hopping was eliminated in CS:GO, that might be considered an improvement for some (and not so much for others).
caymanjim 6y ago
There's not a lot of difference in gameplay, but CSGO destroyed the sense of community and enabled toxic players. Prior to CSGO, there was a vibrant community of player-hosted servers, run by clans. The best of them had active admins who would kick/ban cheaters, trolls, and toxic people. It was hard to find good community servers, but once you did, it felt like home. It's much easier to get into a match now, due to the automatic matchmaking and different playstyle and skill grouping options, but the communities are gone. You can still run a private server, but hardly anyone does. I used to be in a half-dozen clans and now I'm in zero.
- derekdahmer 6y ago
  Community in gaming is still just as strong it's just shifted from custom servers to discord servers. Back in the day I remember mailing $10 every month to someone splitting hosting costs on our clan's 1.6 CS server. It felt like a clubhouse I'd pop into after school to hang out with all my online friends. Nowadays I get the same experience from joining voice chat in my regular Discord channel with people I know, then grouping up with whoever's online for a few comp or quick play overwatch games.

ngold 6y ago

I still play source. I could never get into go. Not sure what modding scene go has, but there are a ton of great mod servers in source. Zombie escape gets ridiculous.

Galaco 6y ago
I didn’t expect to see another CSS Ze player, given there’s so few of us now. There’s a good chance we play together! Thousands of hours spent playing and making maps, I wouldn’t trade them for the world.

treebornfrog 6y ago

Yes it's a shame, I have so many fond memories of playing condition zero. Used to switch between playing CS:CZ, frontpage and photoshop. Back when PSD slicing was a thing.

anoraca 6y ago

Valorant appears to me to be an uninspired clone with a few gimmicks and a lot of marketing money behind it. It's the same way that LoL was a clone of DotA with extra marketing and a few gimmicks. I don't understand why anyone knowledgeable would be installing a "free" game that includes a kernel level rootkit. https://www.techspot.com/news/84841-valorant-anti-cheat-software-loads-kernel-based-driver.html https://www.techspot.com/news/84841-valorant-anti-cheat-soft...

elefanten 6y ago
1. Overwhelming majority of the (potential) player base is not "knowledgeable" as per your comment 2. It worked for LoL, which has made something like 10x the money of Dota 2. Valorant doesn't have to be "the best" in its category, as judged by connoiseurs, to win its market.
- seabird 6y ago
  League was the first free derivative of the mod (Dota 2 was released nearly four years after it) and the complexity of the game was massively reduced to the extent that it's marketable in a way that Dota 2 just isn't. Valorant is trying to fight the incumbent while dealing with an inevitable balance trainwreck, and although Riot is going to throw a lot of money at it, it's not clear they realize how spoiled they were with the success of League. I'm sure the game will be around in a few years, but the odds of it largely supplanting CS don't look very good.
AndriyKunitsyn 6y ago
A kernel level rootkit is a usual form of an anti-cheat software nowadays (BattleEye, EAC). You can dislike it, you can question whether you can trust such software from a Tencent-owned company, but it doesn’t make Riot’s solution somehow different.
Avicebron 6y ago
I've seen Valorant blow up in my little circle of online content/professional gamer types. Personally I haven't taken to it, I think the graphics are not very inspiring and the game play seems derivative of almost every team vs team shooter in the last decade. That being said, marketing means a lot and if they flood the digital airwaves, they might just reach critical mass.

enahs-sf 6y ago

Thousands of hours gone to many a sleepless night of scoutzknivez with friends. Fond memories.