5 ms·

Not sure anyone is "convinced", but yes, there are stories of uncertain believeability suggesting that there are people with guns at the "border" demanding ID t

Not sure anyone is "convinced", but yes, there are stories of uncertain believeability suggesting that there are people with guns at the "border" demanding ID to enter. Sounds dubious. Also, that the Antifas are asking for protection money from businesses within the zone. Again, dubious. But, if either of those things are happening, I'm pretty okay with putting an end to them, by whatever means necessary. Threatening Joe and Jane citizen with violence is not cool.

dilbertforgenz 6y ago
Did you hear about the ice cream man who goes around town serving rancid rat milk sundaes to kids? Of course, he doesn't exist, but, if he did, I'm taking a strong stance against him being taken down, by whatever means necessary. Threatening to serve dubious sundaes to kids is not cool.
- thu2111 6y ago
  They don't exist? Why are there photos of them then? https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/06/1862/1048/seattle-protest-4-Getty-Images.jpg?ve=1&tl=1 https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/conte... https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1271196018554494977/photo/1 https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1271196018554494977... The claims that these militias are extorting businesses doesn't come from "the right", it comes from claims by the local police chief. Addressing the takeover of the area surrounding the Seattle Police Department’s abandoned East Precinct building, Chief Carmen Best said ... using air quotes, that police had heard reports of armed people “patrolling” the area, which she said was “very concerning.” “Especially because we don’t know who these people are,” she added. And she hinted that they may even be extorting local business owners and demanding local residents show identification. Chief Carmen Best may be totally wrong or making that up. But knowing these sorts of things is part of her job, so to dismiss it would take something stronger than some mocking denial. Especially because this is exactly what always happens when police vacate an area. The result is not "no police", the result is that militias and mafias step in to do it themselves. But worse.
  - ch 6y ago
    Chief Carmen Best may be totally wrong or making that up. https://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-police-retract-claim-of-autonomous-zone-extorting-businesses-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-police-retract-claim... As it turns out she was, in fact, wrong or making it up.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      > "We've heard, anecdotally, reports of citizens and businesses being asked to pay a fee to operate within this area." I dunno. She 'walked back' the statement. Maybe people were making that up to try to get the cops to retake the area? It could have also been absolutely true. Having lived in that area, I wouldn't put it past them. Honestly, it's impossible to know at this point.
      - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
        The SPD was probably watching foxnews, reported what they were hearing on fox, which FoxNews then took as evidence that their reporting was accurate. There is a reason they call it an “echo chamber.”
      - ogre_codes 6y ago
        > Honestly, it's impossible to know at this point. What is possible to know is that she knew damned well that any statement like that would be repeated 10 times more than any later, retraction of those statements. > Police chief Carmen Best walked back prior statements made by her own department, which have since circulated widely and attracted condemnation from conservative critics of the protesters. Those same critics have almost certainly not retracted their comments based on her statements. She clearly understands how to effectively feed her biggest fans.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    The SPD walked back those statements when they admitted there weren’t actually any reports of such things occurring. Really, I think the SPD was just listening to right wing news sources, who then used the SPD’s acknowledgement of their speculation as evidence in a circular way. https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=redirect&subsource=paywall&return=https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-area-protests-updates-for-thursday-june-11/#update-12846417 https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=red...
alasdair_ 6y ago
Notice how none of these stories are ever “this happened to me” from someone credible who provably lives there? It’s always “a friend said...”
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
virgil_disgr4ce 6y ago
> the Antifas are asking for protection money from businesses within the zone That's one of the most hilarious and absurd things I've ever heard. All of my antifa friends are the most wonderful, gentle nerds. They're gardeners, organizers, history buffs, parents, writers, table-top gamers. It's so bizarre (and shitty) that the public conception of "antifa" became twisted into this nonsensical cartoon of looters and pillagers (and mafiosi now, apparently).
- aloisdg 6y ago
  Trying to discredit antifa it is just fascists doing fascism. Antifa are here to keep the message that fascism is not a welcome ideology.
- jaracal 6y ago
  I don't know if they're shaking people for money, but I have seen plenty of videos of alleged antifas sucker-punching people that they think are fascists. There's videos of them throwing rocks at the police, too. There are stories of them setting fires during protests (before the current ones). There are also stories of violent street fights with neonazi groups. To me, it's just as hilarious and naive to think they are all pacifists.
- downerending 6y ago
  You should watch some of the riot videos. In one, I saw an Antifa kick an unconscious man in the head. My mother, who lived through Nazi Germany, would have understood these people as brownshirts.
  - twirlip 6y ago
    Going Godwin? You are the first; something to mull over, I suppose. (I separate your "Nazi" from the "neonazi" used in an adjacent post). However, as Antifa is decidedly Anti-Fascist and without the paramilitary aspect of the brownshirts, perhaps they would be more closely identified with the Rotfrontkämpferbund.
    - 6y ago
oarsinsync 6y ago
> I'm pretty okay with putting an end to them, by whatever means necessary I don't know you, nor do I know your views on capital punishment. That said, I suspect you don't intend to promote that these crimes justify summary executions. Consider the realistic logical endpoint of the statement. It ultimately means that it's acceptable for the police to storm the space, guns blazing, shooting (and reasonable probability of killing) anyone who doesn't immediately surrender.
- downerending 6y ago
  Summary executions are never necessary, so this seems moot.

dilbertforgenz 6y ago

Did you hear about the ice cream man who goes around town serving rancid rat milk sundaes to kids? Of course, he doesn't exist, but, if he did, I'm taking a strong stance against him being taken down, by whatever means necessary. Threatening to serve dubious sundaes to kids is not cool.

thu2111 6y ago
They don't exist? Why are there photos of them then? https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/06/1862/1048/seattle-protest-4-Getty-Images.jpg?ve=1&tl=1 https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/conte... https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1271196018554494977/photo/1 https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1271196018554494977... The claims that these militias are extorting businesses doesn't come from "the right", it comes from claims by the local police chief. Addressing the takeover of the area surrounding the Seattle Police Department’s abandoned East Precinct building, Chief Carmen Best said ... using air quotes, that police had heard reports of armed people “patrolling” the area, which she said was “very concerning.” “Especially because we don’t know who these people are,” she added. And she hinted that they may even be extorting local business owners and demanding local residents show identification. Chief Carmen Best may be totally wrong or making that up. But knowing these sorts of things is part of her job, so to dismiss it would take something stronger than some mocking denial. Especially because this is exactly what always happens when police vacate an area. The result is not "no police", the result is that militias and mafias step in to do it themselves. But worse.
- ch 6y ago
  Chief Carmen Best may be totally wrong or making that up. https://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-police-retract-claim-of-autonomous-zone-extorting-businesses-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-police-retract-claim... As it turns out she was, in fact, wrong or making it up.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    > "We've heard, anecdotally, reports of citizens and businesses being asked to pay a fee to operate within this area." I dunno. She 'walked back' the statement. Maybe people were making that up to try to get the cops to retake the area? It could have also been absolutely true. Having lived in that area, I wouldn't put it past them. Honestly, it's impossible to know at this point.
    - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
      The SPD was probably watching foxnews, reported what they were hearing on fox, which FoxNews then took as evidence that their reporting was accurate. There is a reason they call it an “echo chamber.”
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      > Honestly, it's impossible to know at this point. What is possible to know is that she knew damned well that any statement like that would be repeated 10 times more than any later, retraction of those statements. > Police chief Carmen Best walked back prior statements made by her own department, which have since circulated widely and attracted condemnation from conservative critics of the protesters. Those same critics have almost certainly not retracted their comments based on her statements. She clearly understands how to effectively feed her biggest fans.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  The SPD walked back those statements when they admitted there weren’t actually any reports of such things occurring. Really, I think the SPD was just listening to right wing news sources, who then used the SPD’s acknowledgement of their speculation as evidence in a circular way. https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=redirect&subsource=paywall&return=https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-area-protests-updates-for-thursday-june-11/#update-12846417 https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=red...

alasdair_ 6y ago

Notice how none of these stories are ever “this happened to me” from someone credible who provably lives there? It’s always “a friend said...”

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

virgil_disgr4ce 6y ago

> the Antifas are asking for protection money from businesses within the zone That's one of the most hilarious and absurd things I've ever heard. All of my antifa friends are the most wonderful, gentle nerds. They're gardeners, organizers, history buffs, parents, writers, table-top gamers. It's so bizarre (and shitty) that the public conception of "antifa" became twisted into this nonsensical cartoon of looters and pillagers (and mafiosi now, apparently).

aloisdg 6y ago
Trying to discredit antifa it is just fascists doing fascism. Antifa are here to keep the message that fascism is not a welcome ideology.
jaracal 6y ago
I don't know if they're shaking people for money, but I have seen plenty of videos of alleged antifas sucker-punching people that they think are fascists. There's videos of them throwing rocks at the police, too. There are stories of them setting fires during protests (before the current ones). There are also stories of violent street fights with neonazi groups. To me, it's just as hilarious and naive to think they are all pacifists.
downerending 6y ago
You should watch some of the riot videos. In one, I saw an Antifa kick an unconscious man in the head. My mother, who lived through Nazi Germany, would have understood these people as brownshirts.
- twirlip 6y ago
  Going Godwin? You are the first; something to mull over, I suppose. (I separate your "Nazi" from the "neonazi" used in an adjacent post). However, as Antifa is decidedly Anti-Fascist and without the paramilitary aspect of the brownshirts, perhaps they would be more closely identified with the Rotfrontkämpferbund.
  - 6y ago

oarsinsync 6y ago

> I'm pretty okay with putting an end to them, by whatever means necessary I don't know you, nor do I know your views on capital punishment. That said, I suspect you don't intend to promote that these crimes justify summary executions. Consider the realistic logical endpoint of the statement. It ultimately means that it's acceptable for the police to storm the space, guns blazing, shooting (and reasonable probability of killing) anyone who doesn't immediately surrender.

downerending 6y ago
Summary executions are never necessary, so this seems moot.