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By this logic Apple is a monopoly in the mobile space since nobody can afford to ignore them when building apps.

ethbro 6y ago
Yes.
sudosysgen 6y ago
People absolutely can afford to ignore Apple in the mobile space, except if your app is 100% reliant on the US market. iOS is only about 20-25% of the global market.
- cageface 6y ago
  We're talking about US antitrust law and its enforcement in this thread. And in the US market iOS is the priority for app developers.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Very few US companies operate only in the US as far as app development, and none of the statistics I've seen so far concern solely the US. In any case, if you're making a social media app or other international app, an Android version is likely more important.
    - bananabreakfast 6y ago
      You're kind of completely missing the point you're responding to. There is no such thing as international anti-trust. In this conversation the US market is the only thing that matters since we are talking about US law. Hence, android does not really matter much for revenue.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        That is not entirely true, because the internet is inherently international. It is a different kind of anti-trust, though I recognize that laws haven't caught up to it. Even in the US, Apple does not have even close to a monopoly over Android, anyways. At best they have 50% of the marketshare.
        fauigerzigerk 6y ago
        iOS has 58.54% market share in the US according to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta...
- pb7 6y ago
  And yet iOS generates 80% more revenue than Android does[0]. If you want to make money, you can't ignore Apple. [0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/03/apples-app-store-generated-80-more-revenue-than-google-play-with-a-third-as-many-installs-in-first-half-of-2019 https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/03/apples-app-store-...
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    If you monetize mainly by charging people for your app, sure. If you sell mandatory subscriptions or make your money from ads, Android is more important.
    - pb7 6y ago
      This makes sense on paper but iOS users also tend to have higher disposable income[0] which would make them spend more on subscriptions and be more valuable ad targets. [0] https://www.mobilemarketer.com/news/survey-iphone-owners-spend-more-have-higher-incomes-than-android-users/541008/ https://www.mobilemarketer.com/news/survey-iphone-owners-spe...
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        That study is US-only, too. If you're making a solely US-based ad-servicing service (which makes very little sense, and if you are you should spend time on internationalization before spending time on your iOS app), otherwise if you are making a subscription service only in the US that does make sense. And even if the trends did hold up internationally, and I really suspect they don't, Android would still be better for ads and subscriptions internationally due to nearly three times the market share, despite a bit more than half the disposable income.
        pb7 6y ago
        I don’t see why the trends wouldn’t hold up internationally. Android is more popular than iOS internationally because the vast majority of the world has a lower PPP than the US. Android is popular in places like India which pale in comparison to US revenues per customer simply based on PPP alone.
danaris 6y ago
That would be closer to a monopsony (single buyer), though the details get a bit fuzzy when talking about platforms rather than straight customer-seller relationships.
ponker 6y ago
Yes, it is. Not in defanged US antitrust law, but in reality.
hackerbrother 6y ago
I think there are lots of monopolies, yeah
thayne 6y ago
That's because Apple is a monopoly, or at least Google and apple form a duoopoly. And if you make mobile apps you have to pay the google tax, apple tax, or more likely both.And play by their rules.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  This raises and interesting point: Would consumers be better served if app developers had to pay the Google tax, the Apple tax aaaaaand the Microsoft tax, the Samsung tax, the HTC tax, etc etc etc?
  - fauigerzigerk 6y ago
    Yes, because if there was competition, that "tax" would likely be lower. For instance, Microsoft's fees for one-off purchases are just half of what Apple/Google are charging.
- mrep 6y ago
  On android, you can publish yourself which Fortnite did [0]. iOS you cannot though and in fact they are getting sued for their "abusive monopoly in iOS app/in-app distribution services" [1]. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45063002#:~:text=The%20developer%20of%20Fortnite%20has,30%25%20cut%20of%20sales%20made https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45063002#:~:text=The%20d.... [1]: https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/2019-06-04-complaint-apple-developers.pdf https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/201...
  - thayne 6y ago
    Yes, it is technically possible. But good luck getting your users to do that if you aren't as big as fortnite.
haroldship 6y ago
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/6/4/18652460/apple-class-action-lawsuit-monopoly-app-store https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...
- lexs 6y ago
  NO AMP: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/4/18652460/apple-class-action-lawsuit-monopoly-app-store https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/4/18652460/apple-class-actio...

Yes.

People absolutely can afford to ignore Apple in the mobile space, except if your app is 100% reliant on the US market. iOS is only about 20-25% of the global market.

cageface 6y ago
We're talking about US antitrust law and its enforcement in this thread. And in the US market iOS is the priority for app developers.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Very few US companies operate only in the US as far as app development, and none of the statistics I've seen so far concern solely the US. In any case, if you're making a social media app or other international app, an Android version is likely more important.
  - bananabreakfast 6y ago
    You're kind of completely missing the point you're responding to. There is no such thing as international anti-trust. In this conversation the US market is the only thing that matters since we are talking about US law. Hence, android does not really matter much for revenue.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      That is not entirely true, because the internet is inherently international. It is a different kind of anti-trust, though I recognize that laws haven't caught up to it. Even in the US, Apple does not have even close to a monopoly over Android, anyways. At best they have 50% of the marketshare.
      - fauigerzigerk 6y ago
        iOS has 58.54% market share in the US according to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta...
pb7 6y ago
And yet iOS generates 80% more revenue than Android does[0]. If you want to make money, you can't ignore Apple. [0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/03/apples-app-store-generated-80-more-revenue-than-google-play-with-a-third-as-many-installs-in-first-half-of-2019 https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/03/apples-app-store-...
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  If you monetize mainly by charging people for your app, sure. If you sell mandatory subscriptions or make your money from ads, Android is more important.
  - pb7 6y ago
    This makes sense on paper but iOS users also tend to have higher disposable income[0] which would make them spend more on subscriptions and be more valuable ad targets. [0] https://www.mobilemarketer.com/news/survey-iphone-owners-spend-more-have-higher-incomes-than-android-users/541008/ https://www.mobilemarketer.com/news/survey-iphone-owners-spe...
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      That study is US-only, too. If you're making a solely US-based ad-servicing service (which makes very little sense, and if you are you should spend time on internationalization before spending time on your iOS app), otherwise if you are making a subscription service only in the US that does make sense. And even if the trends did hold up internationally, and I really suspect they don't, Android would still be better for ads and subscriptions internationally due to nearly three times the market share, despite a bit more than half the disposable income.
      - pb7 6y ago
        I don’t see why the trends wouldn’t hold up internationally. Android is more popular than iOS internationally because the vast majority of the world has a lower PPP than the US. Android is popular in places like India which pale in comparison to US revenues per customer simply based on PPP alone.

danaris 6y ago

That would be closer to a monopsony (single buyer), though the details get a bit fuzzy when talking about platforms rather than straight customer-seller relationships.

ponker 6y ago

Yes, it is. Not in defanged US antitrust law, but in reality.

hackerbrother 6y ago

I think there are lots of monopolies, yeah

thayne 6y ago

That's because Apple is a monopoly, or at least Google and apple form a duoopoly. And if you make mobile apps you have to pay the google tax, apple tax, or more likely both.And play by their rules.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
This raises and interesting point: Would consumers be better served if app developers had to pay the Google tax, the Apple tax aaaaaand the Microsoft tax, the Samsung tax, the HTC tax, etc etc etc?
- fauigerzigerk 6y ago
  Yes, because if there was competition, that "tax" would likely be lower. For instance, Microsoft's fees for one-off purchases are just half of what Apple/Google are charging.
mrep 6y ago
On android, you can publish yourself which Fortnite did [0]. iOS you cannot though and in fact they are getting sued for their "abusive monopoly in iOS app/in-app distribution services" [1]. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45063002#:~:text=The%20developer%20of%20Fortnite%20has,30%25%20cut%20of%20sales%20made https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45063002#:~:text=The%20d.... [1]: https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/2019-06-04-complaint-apple-developers.pdf https://www.hbsslaw.com/uploads/case_downloads/apple-dev/201...
- thayne 6y ago
  Yes, it is technically possible. But good luck getting your users to do that if you aren't as big as fortnite.

haroldship 6y ago

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/6/4/18652460/apple-class-action-lawsuit-monopoly-app-store https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...

lexs 6y ago
NO AMP: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/4/18652460/apple-class-action-lawsuit-monopoly-app-store https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/4/18652460/apple-class-actio...