4 ms·

For the purposes of satiety you are correct. For the purposes of bodyweight, a calorie is a calorie. How that bodyweight is stored (fat vs muscle) is dependen

For the purposes of satiety you are correct. For the purposes of bodyweight, a calorie is a calorie. How that bodyweight is stored (fat vs muscle) is dependent on exercise + whether the calorie is from a fat, carb, protein or alcohol (the four macronutrients).

chongli 6y ago
Satiety vs calories is everything. If you give people “all you can eat” bland boiled potatoes with no butter or salt and nothing else, they will not overeat. They will lose weight. The same goes for rats. Give them all they can eat of bland nutritional rat pellets and they’ll maintain body weight. Give them Doritos and McDonald’s, on the other hand, and they’ll gain weight like crazy. It should be a surprise to nobody that capitalism has optimized junk food to be as addictive and non-filling as possible.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  I'm not a dietitian, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong... They're very starchy and high in carbs, and very low in protein. So you can eat tons of them and still not feel full.
  - nradov 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure chongli is correct about the plain boiled potatoes. How many can you eat before you're sick of them? It's easy to test for yourself, go peel and boil some potatoes right now.
    - vajenetehais 6y ago
      You are not proving him he is wrong. You are talking about a different phenomena: satiety is different from getting sick of something. If you reach satiety your body and brain won't want to eat more. If you are sick of something, you will just switch to something else.
    - watwut 6y ago
      You will be surprised, but wont feel full from diet like that. Nor you will feel full from vegetables only. (I like potatos and used to eat them a lot, you wont feel good if you eat only them.)
  - dukeyukey 6y ago
    Potatoes are actually one of the most satiating foods, especially compared to other staples. They are low in protein, but only have about 17g of carbs per 100g, with bread being almost 50g. Sources: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Petocz/publication/15701207_A_Satiety_Index_of_common_foods/links/00b495189da413c16d000000/A-Satiety-Index-of-common-foods.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Petocz/publicatio... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      That's surprising since there are plenty of studies that have found avoiding high-GI foods helps with weight loss https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195666307002802 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01956... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195666307003248 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01956... It could be that potatoes make you feel full short term, but people who overeat in the first place, left to their own devices, will eat more than they should In your first linked study for example, they say the participants were given isoenergetic portions and then saitery was measured 2 hours later, it wouldn't be surprising if that wasn't representative of longer term weight loss
- watwut 6y ago
  > Satiety vs calories is everything. If you give people “all you can eat” bland boiled potatoes with no butter or salt and nothing else, they will not overeat. They will lose weight. Yes, but they will also get sick from malnutrition. They will also become passive, unable to fulfill their job and family responsibilities. They will also have hard time regulate their mood. There is unstated requirement in loosing weight game that should be more prominent I guess: "while not making that person much more sick and dysfunctional"
  - chongli 6y ago
    It was used as an example, not a recommendation. The point is that food these days is more pleasurable than ever and people eat for pleasure. It’s perfectly possible to have a healthy but bland diet. Nobody wants to do that though.
    - watwut 6y ago
      > It’s perfectly possible to have a healthy but bland diet It stops being bland once you start putting there everything you need - including some salt that you actually need. Moreover the make you fat still improvement over past when people were getting sick from this or that missing in food. Not just because hunger, but because people did not knew what everything is needed. The history of dietary guidelines is quite interesting in that regard, there were sicknesses that are basically forgotten by now that were due to something missing in food.
watwut 6y ago
Carbs metabolize differently and faster then fat. So when you eat sugar, it gets converted into energy available fast and then stored when not used. When you eat fat or protein, you have less new instantly available energy, but you can use it longer. That makes massive difference in bodyweight management. Also satiety, ability to stay active and normal mood is super important for your ability to keep bodyweight and diet. One problem with focus on calories is that it ignores other human needs and other nutrients body needs and make it impossible to keep up long term.

chongli 6y ago

Satiety vs calories is everything. If you give people “all you can eat” bland boiled potatoes with no butter or salt and nothing else, they will not overeat. They will lose weight. The same goes for rats. Give them all they can eat of bland nutritional rat pellets and they’ll maintain body weight. Give them Doritos and McDonald’s, on the other hand, and they’ll gain weight like crazy. It should be a surprise to nobody that capitalism has optimized junk food to be as addictive and non-filling as possible.

BoorishBears 6y ago
I'm not a dietitian, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong... They're very starchy and high in carbs, and very low in protein. So you can eat tons of them and still not feel full.
- nradov 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure chongli is correct about the plain boiled potatoes. How many can you eat before you're sick of them? It's easy to test for yourself, go peel and boil some potatoes right now.
  - vajenetehais 6y ago
    You are not proving him he is wrong. You are talking about a different phenomena: satiety is different from getting sick of something. If you reach satiety your body and brain won't want to eat more. If you are sick of something, you will just switch to something else.
  - watwut 6y ago
    You will be surprised, but wont feel full from diet like that. Nor you will feel full from vegetables only. (I like potatos and used to eat them a lot, you wont feel good if you eat only them.)
- dukeyukey 6y ago
  Potatoes are actually one of the most satiating foods, especially compared to other staples. They are low in protein, but only have about 17g of carbs per 100g, with bread being almost 50g. Sources: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Petocz/publication/15701207_A_Satiety_Index_of_common_foods/links/00b495189da413c16d000000/A-Satiety-Index-of-common-foods.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Petocz/publicatio... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267283/
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    That's surprising since there are plenty of studies that have found avoiding high-GI foods helps with weight loss https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195666307002802 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01956... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195666307003248 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01956... It could be that potatoes make you feel full short term, but people who overeat in the first place, left to their own devices, will eat more than they should In your first linked study for example, they say the participants were given isoenergetic portions and then saitery was measured 2 hours later, it wouldn't be surprising if that wasn't representative of longer term weight loss
watwut 6y ago
> Satiety vs calories is everything. If you give people “all you can eat” bland boiled potatoes with no butter or salt and nothing else, they will not overeat. They will lose weight. Yes, but they will also get sick from malnutrition. They will also become passive, unable to fulfill their job and family responsibilities. They will also have hard time regulate their mood. There is unstated requirement in loosing weight game that should be more prominent I guess: "while not making that person much more sick and dysfunctional"
- chongli 6y ago
  It was used as an example, not a recommendation. The point is that food these days is more pleasurable than ever and people eat for pleasure. It’s perfectly possible to have a healthy but bland diet. Nobody wants to do that though.
  - watwut 6y ago
    > It’s perfectly possible to have a healthy but bland diet It stops being bland once you start putting there everything you need - including some salt that you actually need. Moreover the make you fat still improvement over past when people were getting sick from this or that missing in food. Not just because hunger, but because people did not knew what everything is needed. The history of dietary guidelines is quite interesting in that regard, there were sicknesses that are basically forgotten by now that were due to something missing in food.

watwut 6y ago

Carbs metabolize differently and faster then fat. So when you eat sugar, it gets converted into energy available fast and then stored when not used. When you eat fat or protein, you have less new instantly available energy, but you can use it longer. That makes massive difference in bodyweight management. Also satiety, ability to stay active and normal mood is super important for your ability to keep bodyweight and diet. One problem with focus on calories is that it ignores other human needs and other nutrients body needs and make it impossible to keep up long term.