5 ms·

> The close knit tribe that thrived with cooperation is definitely in its death throes right now Is it? I think there are a lot of social systems that are bein

> The close knit tribe that thrived with cooperation is definitely in its death throes right now Is it? I think there are a lot of social systems that are being tested at the moment, some are failing. There are many developed countries that are improving their cooperation in the current crisis - I'm in one - Australia, there are others that have seemed to come together, and others that have failed abysmally. No doubt the ones that have had trouble will examine and regroup, maybe some won't. I can imagine if you're in a country with a thousand deaths a day, things don't look good.

golemiprague 6y ago
Australia is no different to any other western country, stop making it as if it is some beacon of cooperation just because it had less corona cases, it is not even relevant.
adventured 6y ago
> I can imagine if you're in a country with a thousand deaths a day, things don't look good. You're obviously referring to the US during the pandemic of 1968-1969, which - as everyone knows - ended the United States forever, because things were so bad in tandem with the severe civil chaos occurring at the time (which was worse than anything going on now in multiple ways). The US never recovered; its superpower status, its wealth and power all vanished from there. Oh wait, that didn't happen at all. I'm in the US, the future looks great, if you can see beyond the tip of your nose. Historically the US always improves thanks to the types of challenges that are going on now, rather than getting worse. In my short lifetime I've lived through several occasions of: 'things are so bad, this is the end of the US' type over-drama (which is farcical). The US is radically more resilient than people outside of the US will ever understand. It's why the never-ending expectations of our national demise and erosion, going all the way back to our formation, have always turned out so embarrassingly wrong. They're wrong now as well. What surprises me is observing the foreign/outside estimation of what it takes to essentially break a nation. I'm surprised the rest of the world is so fragile, they're mentally projecting their own low breaking points onto the US in the criticism.
- chadcmulligan 6y ago
  Indeed, thats what I meant by "No doubt the ones that have had trouble will examine and regroup, maybe some won't", but I can see how some people who are bunkered down get disheartened. I do wonder though if a system that values the lives of its citizens so poorly should be doing a bit of reflecting, though I admire the positive attitude. I also wonder if maybe we're getting it backwards, from a purely darwinian point of view, a damn the torpedoes full steam ahead attitude probably pays in the long run, though it is nicer to live where not every decision is life and death.
- pm90 6y ago
  I would ask that you reconsider your worldview. Its quite natural to speculate on the demise of the Superpower, because by its nature it is the Country that gets a lot of attention. This doesn't mean that a majority of the non-US peoples are actively rooting for its demise (maybe they are? Its an assertion that needs to be validated, perhaps with polls). > It's why the never-ending expectations of our national demise and erosion, going all the way back to our formation, have always turned out so embarrassingly wrong. They're wrong now as well. History has shown us that nearly every civilization that flourished and prospered also managed to vanish over a really short period of time. Societies are a lot more fragile than you would believe. American success is not based on some jingoistic manifest destiny; it is a country that has managed to get its fundamentals right. However, even the best prepared civilization can collapse in short order; its happened before, and there is no reason to believe it won't happen again.
  - chadcmulligan 6y ago
    I look back to the 50's in the US (and most western countries I believe) - a time when science and education were respected and educating and housing the citizenry was the goal. As a result of this and other events the booms of the 70's occurred. There seems to be a reversal of this - science is actively disregarded by a large part of the population, education is not respected, a large and growing part of the population is disenfranchised and so on. These are not good portents imho.
- perl4ever 6y ago
eindiran 6y ago
Taking a look at some other "social systems that are being tested at the moment", I don't think your claim that Australia is "coming together" in comparison to other "developed countries" is correct. Some examples: * Brisbane's "Boundary St" still exists, name unchanged [0]. * Story from less than 1 hour ago: 4 month-old baby of indigenous women dies while mother is in police custody [1]. * PM calls Australian BLM protests "completely unacceptable"[2], urges people not to attend[3], while "think[ing] to [himself] how wonderful a country Australia is" [4]. * The mounting spread of COVID-19 conspiracies, including the "Wake Up Australia" campaign [5]. * Australia participating in spying on its citizens [6], passing anti-encryption laws [7]. [0] https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/calls-for-brisbanes-boundary-street-to-be-renamed-to-remove-reminder-of-racist-history/news-story/570e8515b67194d9dfefe307e264e96a https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/calls-for-brisba... [1] https://www.news.com.au/national/northern-territory/fourmonthold-baby-girl-dies-while-mum-in-police-custody-in-katherine-in-the-northern-territory/news-story/b60d5a16a4490786c76b1cda9f854dff https://www.news.com.au/national/northern-territory/fourmont... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-11/black-lives-matter-protests-morrison-calls-for-charges/12342762 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-11/black-lives-matter-pr... [3] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/pm-tells-people-not-to-attend-black-lives-matter-protests/12325210 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/pm-tells-people-not-t... [4] https://www.sbs.com.au/news/quoting-a-meme-scott-morrison-says-us-violence-will-not-bring-about-change https://www.sbs.com.au/news/quoting-a-meme-scott-morrison-sa... [5] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-12/asio-briefing-warns-far-right-is-exploiting-coronavirus/12344472 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-12/asio-briefing-warns-f... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes [7] https://www.wired.com/story/australia-encryption-law-global-impact/ https://www.wired.com/story/australia-encryption-law-global-...
- chadcmulligan 6y ago
  There's always disputes, but no ones dying or being thrown out of their homes, people are being looked after. I have been amazed at the compassion being shown by the political class on both sides. iirc there was a lot of extra care taken in the NT for indigenous people because they seem extra susceptible to covid 19 just as a counter example. I didn't know that about boundary st - assumed it was just a boundary, seems it should be changed. Its great this conversation has started, like most I'm unaware of these problems, and its good to get them out in the air, if the fix is renaming a street - then who cares, rename the street.

golemiprague 6y ago

Australia is no different to any other western country, stop making it as if it is some beacon of cooperation just because it had less corona cases, it is not even relevant.

adventured 6y ago

> I can imagine if you're in a country with a thousand deaths a day, things don't look good. You're obviously referring to the US during the pandemic of 1968-1969, which - as everyone knows - ended the United States forever, because things were so bad in tandem with the severe civil chaos occurring at the time (which was worse than anything going on now in multiple ways). The US never recovered; its superpower status, its wealth and power all vanished from there. Oh wait, that didn't happen at all. I'm in the US, the future looks great, if you can see beyond the tip of your nose. Historically the US always improves thanks to the types of challenges that are going on now, rather than getting worse. In my short lifetime I've lived through several occasions of: 'things are so bad, this is the end of the US' type over-drama (which is farcical). The US is radically more resilient than people outside of the US will ever understand. It's why the never-ending expectations of our national demise and erosion, going all the way back to our formation, have always turned out so embarrassingly wrong. They're wrong now as well. What surprises me is observing the foreign/outside estimation of what it takes to essentially break a nation. I'm surprised the rest of the world is so fragile, they're mentally projecting their own low breaking points onto the US in the criticism.

chadcmulligan 6y ago
Indeed, thats what I meant by "No doubt the ones that have had trouble will examine and regroup, maybe some won't", but I can see how some people who are bunkered down get disheartened. I do wonder though if a system that values the lives of its citizens so poorly should be doing a bit of reflecting, though I admire the positive attitude. I also wonder if maybe we're getting it backwards, from a purely darwinian point of view, a damn the torpedoes full steam ahead attitude probably pays in the long run, though it is nicer to live where not every decision is life and death.
pm90 6y ago
I would ask that you reconsider your worldview. Its quite natural to speculate on the demise of the Superpower, because by its nature it is the Country that gets a lot of attention. This doesn't mean that a majority of the non-US peoples are actively rooting for its demise (maybe they are? Its an assertion that needs to be validated, perhaps with polls). > It's why the never-ending expectations of our national demise and erosion, going all the way back to our formation, have always turned out so embarrassingly wrong. They're wrong now as well. History has shown us that nearly every civilization that flourished and prospered also managed to vanish over a really short period of time. Societies are a lot more fragile than you would believe. American success is not based on some jingoistic manifest destiny; it is a country that has managed to get its fundamentals right. However, even the best prepared civilization can collapse in short order; its happened before, and there is no reason to believe it won't happen again.
- chadcmulligan 6y ago
  I look back to the 50's in the US (and most western countries I believe) - a time when science and education were respected and educating and housing the citizenry was the goal. As a result of this and other events the booms of the 70's occurred. There seems to be a reversal of this - science is actively disregarded by a large part of the population, education is not respected, a large and growing part of the population is disenfranchised and so on. These are not good portents imho.
perl4ever 6y ago

eindiran 6y ago

Taking a look at some other "social systems that are being tested at the moment", I don't think your claim that Australia is "coming together" in comparison to other "developed countries" is correct. Some examples: * Brisbane's "Boundary St" still exists, name unchanged [0]. * Story from less than 1 hour ago: 4 month-old baby of indigenous women dies while mother is in police custody [1]. * PM calls Australian BLM protests "completely unacceptable"[2], urges people not to attend[3], while "think[ing] to [himself] how wonderful a country Australia is" [4]. * The mounting spread of COVID-19 conspiracies, including the "Wake Up Australia" campaign [5]. * Australia participating in spying on its citizens [6], passing anti-encryption laws [7]. [0] https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/calls-for-brisbanes-boundary-street-to-be-renamed-to-remove-reminder-of-racist-history/news-story/570e8515b67194d9dfefe307e264e96a https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/calls-for-brisba... [1] https://www.news.com.au/national/northern-territory/fourmonthold-baby-girl-dies-while-mum-in-police-custody-in-katherine-in-the-northern-territory/news-story/b60d5a16a4490786c76b1cda9f854dff https://www.news.com.au/national/northern-territory/fourmont... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-11/black-lives-matter-protests-morrison-calls-for-charges/12342762 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-11/black-lives-matter-pr... [3] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/pm-tells-people-not-to-attend-black-lives-matter-protests/12325210 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/pm-tells-people-not-t... [4] https://www.sbs.com.au/news/quoting-a-meme-scott-morrison-says-us-violence-will-not-bring-about-change https://www.sbs.com.au/news/quoting-a-meme-scott-morrison-sa... [5] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-12/asio-briefing-warns-far-right-is-exploiting-coronavirus/12344472 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-12/asio-briefing-warns-f... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes [7] https://www.wired.com/story/australia-encryption-law-global-impact/ https://www.wired.com/story/australia-encryption-law-global-...

chadcmulligan 6y ago
There's always disputes, but no ones dying or being thrown out of their homes, people are being looked after. I have been amazed at the compassion being shown by the political class on both sides. iirc there was a lot of extra care taken in the NT for indigenous people because they seem extra susceptible to covid 19 just as a counter example. I didn't know that about boundary st - assumed it was just a boundary, seems it should be changed. Its great this conversation has started, like most I'm unaware of these problems, and its good to get them out in the air, if the fix is renaming a street - then who cares, rename the street.