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And I hope it works. But history says it's going to go poorly and they're going to need to end up with something resembling a police force, even if they don't c

And I hope it works. But history says it's going to go poorly and they're going to need to end up with something resembling a police force, even if they don't call it that.

Kye 6y ago
I don't know how your interactions with police have gone, but I've never had them show up when I called, and most accounts I hear are that they don't do anything at best when they do. At worst, they kill someone. Most of what they do is not stuff they should be doing. There's some niche a well-trained police force can fill, but it's a lot smaller than what the poorly-trained forces do now. Almost no one is actually calling for a complete and permanent abolition of police. Just a redefinition of their role.
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  The first line of the CHAZ demands: > The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police Also, I would look at the Baltimore police/crime post-Freddie Grey to see how diminished police action leads to much increased crime. What the BPD did was horrifying but so was the rise in crime once they became less active.
  - deathgrips 6y ago
    With regular assholes you have the right to self-defense. With the police you don't.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      Without police or “criminal justice apparatus” your rights are merely theoretical.
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        If you feel this insecure, you should purchase firearms and practice using them. Many of your neighbors are doing this.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        Or we could keep the police and purchase firearms.
        liability 6y ago
        Why not have the government hire people to do that for me? Call it "socialized defense" or something.
        jessaustin 6y ago
        Your experiences with this may have gone better for you than those of many of your neighbors went for them?
        deathgrips 6y ago
        American police departments have no duty to protect you. They are law enforcement officers who choose at their own discretion to arrive at your home seven minutes after you dial 911.
        zaarn 6y ago
        Make it their duty to protect you.
        staticassertion 6y ago
        What do you do with all of the people, and the entire system, that's been built and trained for a century to not do that? I doubt many people are against the idea of a specialized government role that provides protection services. What they are against is: * Thinking we can get that role by reforming existing police systems, given how opposed police systems are to such reform * That these systems need the absurd budgets of police departments * That the role requires absurd levels of protection for violent actions * That the role requires armaments in the majority of cases Going form police to a role that fits those criteria is going to start with not having police.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    On the other hand, rather "diminished police action", the NYPD went on strike for a couple months in 2014-2015 and crime actually went down. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-017-0211-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-017-0211-5

And I hope it works. But history says it's going to go poorly and they're going to need to end up with something resembling a police force, even if they don't call it that.

Kye 6y ago

I don't know how your interactions with police have gone, but I've never had them show up when I called, and most accounts I hear are that they don't do anything at best when they do. At worst, they kill someone. Most of what they do is not stuff they should be doing. There's some niche a well-trained police force can fill, but it's a lot smaller than what the poorly-trained forces do now. Almost no one is actually calling for a complete and permanent abolition of police. Just a redefinition of their role.

solidasparagus 6y ago
The first line of the CHAZ demands: > The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police Also, I would look at the Baltimore police/crime post-Freddie Grey to see how diminished police action leads to much increased crime. What the BPD did was horrifying but so was the rise in crime once they became less active.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  With regular assholes you have the right to self-defense. With the police you don't.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    Without police or “criminal justice apparatus” your rights are merely theoretical.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      If you feel this insecure, you should purchase firearms and practice using them. Many of your neighbors are doing this.
      - throwaway894345 6y ago
        Or we could keep the police and purchase firearms.
      - liability 6y ago
        Why not have the government hire people to do that for me? Call it "socialized defense" or something.
        jessaustin 6y ago
        Your experiences with this may have gone better for you than those of many of your neighbors went for them?
        deathgrips 6y ago
        American police departments have no duty to protect you. They are law enforcement officers who choose at their own discretion to arrive at your home seven minutes after you dial 911.
        zaarn 6y ago
        Make it their duty to protect you.
        staticassertion 6y ago
        What do you do with all of the people, and the entire system, that's been built and trained for a century to not do that? I doubt many people are against the idea of a specialized government role that provides protection services. What they are against is: * Thinking we can get that role by reforming existing police systems, given how opposed police systems are to such reform * That these systems need the absurd budgets of police departments * That the role requires absurd levels of protection for violent actions * That the role requires armaments in the majority of cases Going form police to a role that fits those criteria is going to start with not having police.
- monocasa 6y ago
  On the other hand, rather "diminished police action", the NYPD went on strike for a couple months in 2014-2015 and crime actually went down. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-017-0211-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-017-0211-5