8 ms·

Why so little looting in Japan? It's not just about honesty.

112 points by PixelRobot 16y ago

Groxx 16y ago
A handful of broad claims, an abnormally high amount of data and decent writing, and discussions here ranging everywhere. So, because someone has to do it, and because I'm curious what his take on this is: 00000 0000000 000P11000 0000000 00000
Aetius 16y ago
Also, Japan's population is very old...average age is 45. Older people take far less risks than young people.
Joakal 16y ago
Police in Japan are said to beat confessions out of suspects, even false ones[0] [0] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8290767.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8290767.stm
Helianthus16 16y ago
>"Why don't Japanese loot? Because it's not in their culture. How is that culture defined? An absence of looting." immediately followed by: >A better explanation may be structural factors: a robust system of laws that reinforce honesty, a strong police presence, and, ironically, active crime organizations. how is that in any way different from the circular definition the writer just criticized? which I think indicates the real problem with the 'culture' argument; it's not that it's circular, it's that it is vague, which is why the rest of the (detailed) article is actually quite informative.
- jerf 16y ago
  One is circular, one proposes a social mechanism whereby looting will lead to negative consequences for the looter. I'm having a hard time seeing what you think is not different about those two things.
  - Helianthus16 16y ago
    Those social mechanisms are a part of culture. I find it hard to conceive a definition of culture that does not include the systems of negative consequences that a society enforces.
forkandwait 16y ago
High human capital, perhaps? I would hazard the educational/ cultural level of a japanese high school grad about equals that of an American state univ grad (I is one, so I can criticize). Nobody would be surprised SF State got hit by an earthquake and the students didn't loot. (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....)
- forkandwait 16y ago
  Downvote? How about a response?
  - bpodgursky 16y ago
    > (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....) doesn't really contribute anything.
    - forkandwait 16y ago
      Let me expand: The fact that we find it surprising that the Japanese don't loot says a good deal more about our own low standards for what to expect from an average citizen, given our wealth and power, than it does about the Japanese. And it doesn't put us in a good light either.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - fabjan 16y ago
        Hear hear. Swedish citizen here and I can't really imagine any looting happening should something like this happen up here. I was not the least bit surprised that it happened in Haiti, seeing as how poor people already were there. Same thing with New Orleans.
- danilocampos 16y ago
  I'm not sure why you'd be downvoted for this observation. My week in Japan showed me that fast food employees had a higher level of competence and professionalism than at least a third of the people who I've encountered in my career. (To say nothing of their US foodservice counterparts. I had an easier time special-ordering a cheeseburger in Kyoto than I would down the street from my home. And wtf, their standards for food are ridiculous. McDonald's, which I loathe, was fucking delicious there.)
phrotoma 16y ago
The bit about the response of criminal organizations is very interesting. I've heard odd rumors about Japanese career criminals, such as commonly going into the business fully expecting to go to jail. Can any one suggest books / docs on the subject? (Preferably non hollywood-ized).
- btn 16y ago
  The article cites Jake Adelstein and his book "Tokyo Vice", which is a good review of the Yakuza from a western perspective. He also contributes regularly at http://www.japansubculture.com/ http://www.japansubculture.com/, which also features a lot of insight.
- nathos 16y ago
  I've heard good things about "Tokyo Vice" by Jake Adelstein: http://amzn.com/0307475298 http://amzn.com/0307475298
- phrotoma 16y ago
  Thanks for the heads up, I'll give it a look.
pwim 16y ago
They're good at their jobs, too: The clearance rate for murder in 2010 was an unbelievable 98.2 percent, according to West—so unbelievable that some attribute it to underreporting. High clearance rates don't mean police are good at their jobs. Police in Japan can hold a suspect for 23 days without charging him. During this period, they try to get a confession out, using techniques such as sleep deprivation. Furthermore, once you get to trial, it is usually with only a judge, not a jury. All levels are pushed to keep up this high conviction rate. So just because the rate is 98%, this doesn't mean justice was actually served at that rate.
- ericgs 16y ago
  Officers in Japan are evaluated on the basis of how many of their crimes are solved. Seemingly apparent murders that don't have strong leads aren't investigated as such - they're reclassified into categories like suicide or accidental death.
  - silentbicycle 16y ago
    And doesn't Japan have an unusually high suicide rate (on paper)? Speaking as a library worker who used to spend plenty of time digging in such statistics...
- ugh 16y ago
  How does the judge/jury distinction come into play? Is there empirical evidence that trials with juries have more accurate outcomes? I truly know nothing about this but my gut feeling has always been that juries don’t improve trials and I never perceived that as a strange or uncommon view.
  - angstrom 16y ago
    I think the line of thought is that a jury is not as easily bought, harder to threaten, and better at ironing out the moral ambiguities that can be the failings of a single person. However, a judge and no jury is certainly more expedient, neither is infallible in terms of their judgement. That is the reason for appeals.
angus77 16y ago
I wonder how many people returning lost goods actually claim the 5-20% they're entitled to. I lost my bag once (with my wallet in it). I went to the police box closest to the area where I'd lost it, and of course they had it. Someone had picked it up and turned it in. The officer I talked to explained to me that the finder was entitled to a percentage, but had checked a box on the form waiving the finder's fee. And to be honest, I don't think I'd claim anything either if I turned in someone's wallet.
Duff 16y ago
These stories have the odor of propaganda to them. I'd argue that there's no looting because refugees are penned up in shelters inland, and the coastal towns are pretty much gone. In Katrina and Haiti, people were stuck in the immediate area of destruction, and didn't have anywhere to go. Remember the guy blogging from the datacenter in New Orleans during the Hurricane? The whole city broke down, there was nowhere to go. In Haiti, the whole place was barely functioning before the earthquake.
stretchwithme 16y ago
Whether Japan is the ideal or not, society needs to reward productive, mutually beneficial action and discourage parasitic behavior. We couldn't even plant crops if other people could easily reap the results. The US has been failing at that quite a bit in some areas of the economy. We encourage unwise risk taking, while shifting the consequences to those who produce. That is unscalable and unsustainable.
davej 16y ago
I found it interesting that a lot of supermarkets in Japan lowered their prices following the earthquake/tsunami. This is despite the fact that they were disincentivised to do so because obviously the potential for profit on foods and commodities is high after a natural disaster.
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vjk2005 16y ago
I've been studying them for a few years now and will now offer my observations to those interested. The reason why there's no looting in Japan is a result of their uniquely homogeneous population combined with the unique culture that they have been forced to develop as a result of their perilous location, where there's a quake every 5 minutes on average, where tsunamis are so abundant they came up with the name 'tsunami' in the first place, and where there's no dearth of fires and typhoons. To deal with this high probability of disaster, they have become ants(updated below). What's that? Ants live in a world where disasters many orders of magnitude more than an individual ant can handle, occur multiple times a day - colonies getting crushed by predators, flooded with water from human habitats, food they chance upon is multiple hundred times an individual ant's weight etc etc. To deal with this, they have evolved into the 'superorganism', which is a fancy word for saying every individual will put the community first and themselves second, which enables the whole colony to move and work as if it has -one and the same- mind. So if a colony gets destroyed, there's no looting or in-fighting in ant-colonies... they all move as if they possess the same mind, with the ants who were in-charge of foraging for food run out as a team to find the next suitable space for the colony while the ants in-charge of the colony' larvae protect it for the moment till the time is right to re-locate and so on. Becoming a superorganism is the only way for the ants to deal with the catastrophe of the magnitude that they face everyday and still ensure the survival of the majority of the colony successfully - they have to put the colony first and the individual second. Unlike the simple minded ants, humans are far more intelligent, hence independent, than ants, making it harder for human societies to function with the kind of 'one-ness' the ant colonies show. But the Japanese, thanks to their largely homogeneous population, are the closest human equivalent to the superorganism. Being in a country where they know that a disaster of such magnitude is inevitable, they have evolved into a culture of disaster recovery than disaster prevention -"It's not possible to prevent disasters, too numerous, too powerful. So let's focus on recovering from the disasters with the least cost to time, people and resources." They do this by being fast & efficient(you know where JIT, Kaizen come from) and function as if having the same mind (even their language has evolved to support this way of functioning with the strange third-person like way of speaking which I believe is called 気遣い, kidukai or consideration). By trying to become a superorganism, they achieve the same benefits that the ants do - incredibly fast and efficient disaster recovery, but they also show the same side-effects - no looting or in-fighting, fiercely protective of their homogeneity (again, their language has evolved to support this with something called Katakana where non-native words like 'Advanced Cartridge Slot' are turned into pure Japanese sounds - アドバンスカートリッジスロット which is pronounced as adobansukaatorijjisurotto, all native Japanese sounds), clearly visible patterns in the way they work, highly rigid social pecking order (Senpai+Kouhai, gekokujō), outliers will be punished and so on. This unique culture is why they survived a 'surprise' nuclear attack (emphasis on surprise as it is many orders of magnitude easier to deal with something you know about than it is to deal with something that is happening for the first time in history) and came back to be who they are today. This is all made possible by their homogeneous population and such strategies will fall flat on its face anywhere outside of Japan. Just my 2 cents. update: My comparison with the ant-colonies is not meant to belittle the Japanese but to show how their community has evolved similar to the ant-colony superorganism. If tiger communities behaved like a superorganism I'd have used tigers. The focus of my comment is on the 'nature' of ants and not on their physical properties. 俺の国語より日本語上手いんだぜ。大好きっていうレヴェルで住むことじゃねよ。なんで好きな人たちの悪口言うわけ！
dhughes 16y ago
I work with a Japanese woman she's about 30 years-old and has been here in Canada for at least ten years (a guess) and I can confirm that she is polite and courteous to the extreme. It's embarrassing to see the contrast of some of my fellow Canadian co-workers' manners they eat with their mouths open, talk with food in their mouth, suck their teeth, turn up the TV in the break room with others in there just because they want to watch TV, walk in front of elderly people - so infuriatingly self-centered. Customers at work keep asking her about Japan and if her family was injured and she politely answers they're OK but day after day people keep asking as if they think they are the first to think to ask her the obvious instead of having some common sense and keep their mouths shut. People think of Canadians as polite but Japan certainly holds the top spot for manners of all nations on this planet if all Japanese people are like my co-worker friend. If we ever had a disaster here I know of at least one person who won't be opportunistic and rob me when I'm down.
- wyclif 16y ago
  I agree on the politeness observation; I've been all over the world, but Japan is the only place where an employee at a Starbucks coffee kiosk thanked me three times for purchasing an espresso.
- elai 16y ago
  There are disadvantages and advantages to politeness. A polite society tends to be more disconnected, less intimate and harder to make friends with in vs. a more intimate, but possibly a bit more "rude" society too: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0213/cover.html http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0213/cover.h...
MaysonL 16y ago
Perhaps it's a myth? See: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/03/why-no-looting-in-japan-ctd-3.html http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/03...
kadobaro 16y ago
So little looting? Hate to burst your bubble, but the Japanese news is full of scammers pocketing money "for earthquake victims", people stealing from charity boxes, and looting. Yes, looting. I can't find many news articles other than in Japanese, but here we go. Just use Google translate (http://translate.google.com/ http://translate.google.com/). Since the earthquake, there were over 250 cases of looting in Sendai alone. http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date3&k=2011031900317 http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date3&k=2011031900317 Here's a nice article that mentions people trying to break into ATMs right after the quake. http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000211 http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000211 Here's just one about stealing from charity boxes. There were probably 4 or 5 articles today. http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000250 http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000250 Stuff is happening, it's just not getting translated into your news.
- fadzlan 16y ago
  While that is true, I think the looting cases there could be viewed as an exception, as compared to widespread looting that happens just after natural disaster anywhere else in the world.
mynameishere 16y ago
The next time the entire state of Iowa floods, I want to see endless articles about why midwestern white people don't loot. Don't bother, here's the reason: Most people don't loot. The default "loot bit" on most people is firmly OFF. In New Orleans, people loot. That also doesn't warrant a lot of analysis.
known 16y ago
"The nail that stands out will be hammered down." -- Japanese Proverb
michaelochurch 16y ago
One important note: most Americans are honest and some will go well out of their way to do the right thing. I think there's actually more of the latter (people going well out of their way to help others) in the U.S. than in many other countries. If you lose something in the U.S. and there's a way for a person who finds it to return it to you, your odds are well above 50% of getting it back. Possibly 90%. This number is pretty constant across racial and geographic lines. Oddly enough, measured honestly rates tend to be slightly lower at the socioeconomic top and bottom than in the middle. At the bottom, it's because of economic desperation. At the top, it's because people are so used to a sense of winning and entitlement that they enjoy "beating the system". I'd argue that, at all levels, class-based resentments are the reason for lower levels of honesty among Americans. Japan has something much closer to a "middle-class society" or classlessness than we do. They have rich and poor, but not in the way we do, and economic status doesn't persist over generations as in the U.S. For example, the earthquake victims are in for a very difficult few years-- more difficult than most people in the industrialized world ever experience-- but they're not going to fall to the bottom of society because of this. In the U.S., they easily could. I know PhDs in the U.S. who end up in $7/hour retail jobs after developing health problems, losing their jobs, their insurance, and their savings. The biggest difference in the U.S. is that we have a large, angry underclass that (justly) considers itself failed by society and hates it. We also have a tiny but invincible upper class that gets away with literal robbery and tends to set the moral pace in our society: kids in academic cheating scandals generally say they're just preparing for the real world, and they're more accurate than we'd like to admit. "Most people cheat" is false, but "most of society's biggest winners are cheaters" is true. I think the contempt for society and ethical behavior that you see in a visible few Americans is based in social class, not anything else. Every society has poor people, but our underclass comprises 20-40 percent of the population. It has a mix of people who've fallen into it recently (from the disintegrated bottom of the middle class) and who are angry, and it has families that have been in it for tens of generations and have been nurturing grudges forever. Also, not all looters and ruffians are in this underclass, because there are a lot of opportunistic middle-class people who adopt "thug" culture for kicks. In the U.S., we enable cultural illnesses (mean-spirited conservatism, religious bigotry, lower-class "thug" culture) that other societies have the sense of marginalize.
losethos 16y ago
Now, just work on hording.

112 points by PixelRobot 16y ago

Groxx 16y ago

A handful of broad claims, an abnormally high amount of data and decent writing, and discussions here ranging everywhere. So, because someone has to do it, and because I'm curious what his take on this is: 00000 0000000 000P11000 0000000 00000

Aetius 16y ago

Also, Japan's population is very old...average age is 45. Older people take far less risks than young people.

Joakal 16y ago

Police in Japan are said to beat confessions out of suspects, even false ones[0] [0] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8290767.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8290767.stm

Helianthus16 16y ago

>"Why don't Japanese loot? Because it's not in their culture. How is that culture defined? An absence of looting." immediately followed by: >A better explanation may be structural factors: a robust system of laws that reinforce honesty, a strong police presence, and, ironically, active crime organizations. how is that in any way different from the circular definition the writer just criticized? which I think indicates the real problem with the 'culture' argument; it's not that it's circular, it's that it is vague, which is why the rest of the (detailed) article is actually quite informative.

jerf 16y ago
One is circular, one proposes a social mechanism whereby looting will lead to negative consequences for the looter. I'm having a hard time seeing what you think is not different about those two things.
- Helianthus16 16y ago
  Those social mechanisms are a part of culture. I find it hard to conceive a definition of culture that does not include the systems of negative consequences that a society enforces.

forkandwait 16y ago

High human capital, perhaps? I would hazard the educational/ cultural level of a japanese high school grad about equals that of an American state univ grad (I is one, so I can criticize). Nobody would be surprised SF State got hit by an earthquake and the students didn't loot. (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....)

forkandwait 16y ago
Downvote? How about a response?
- bpodgursky 16y ago
  > (The low educational and cultural level of the US is embarassing....) doesn't really contribute anything.
  - forkandwait 16y ago
    Let me expand: The fact that we find it surprising that the Japanese don't loot says a good deal more about our own low standards for what to expect from an average citizen, given our wealth and power, than it does about the Japanese. And it doesn't put us in a good light either.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - fabjan 16y ago
      Hear hear. Swedish citizen here and I can't really imagine any looting happening should something like this happen up here. I was not the least bit surprised that it happened in Haiti, seeing as how poor people already were there. Same thing with New Orleans.
danilocampos 16y ago
I'm not sure why you'd be downvoted for this observation. My week in Japan showed me that fast food employees had a higher level of competence and professionalism than at least a third of the people who I've encountered in my career. (To say nothing of their US foodservice counterparts. I had an easier time special-ordering a cheeseburger in Kyoto than I would down the street from my home. And wtf, their standards for food are ridiculous. McDonald's, which I loathe, was fucking delicious there.)

phrotoma 16y ago

The bit about the response of criminal organizations is very interesting. I've heard odd rumors about Japanese career criminals, such as commonly going into the business fully expecting to go to jail. Can any one suggest books / docs on the subject? (Preferably non hollywood-ized).

btn 16y ago
The article cites Jake Adelstein and his book "Tokyo Vice", which is a good review of the Yakuza from a western perspective. He also contributes regularly at http://www.japansubculture.com/ http://www.japansubculture.com/, which also features a lot of insight.
nathos 16y ago
I've heard good things about "Tokyo Vice" by Jake Adelstein: http://amzn.com/0307475298 http://amzn.com/0307475298
phrotoma 16y ago
Thanks for the heads up, I'll give it a look.

pwim 16y ago

They're good at their jobs, too: The clearance rate for murder in 2010 was an unbelievable 98.2 percent, according to West—so unbelievable that some attribute it to underreporting. High clearance rates don't mean police are good at their jobs. Police in Japan can hold a suspect for 23 days without charging him. During this period, they try to get a confession out, using techniques such as sleep deprivation. Furthermore, once you get to trial, it is usually with only a judge, not a jury. All levels are pushed to keep up this high conviction rate. So just because the rate is 98%, this doesn't mean justice was actually served at that rate.

ericgs 16y ago
Officers in Japan are evaluated on the basis of how many of their crimes are solved. Seemingly apparent murders that don't have strong leads aren't investigated as such - they're reclassified into categories like suicide or accidental death.
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  And doesn't Japan have an unusually high suicide rate (on paper)? Speaking as a library worker who used to spend plenty of time digging in such statistics...
ugh 16y ago
How does the judge/jury distinction come into play? Is there empirical evidence that trials with juries have more accurate outcomes? I truly know nothing about this but my gut feeling has always been that juries don’t improve trials and I never perceived that as a strange or uncommon view.
- angstrom 16y ago
  I think the line of thought is that a jury is not as easily bought, harder to threaten, and better at ironing out the moral ambiguities that can be the failings of a single person. However, a judge and no jury is certainly more expedient, neither is infallible in terms of their judgement. That is the reason for appeals.

angus77 16y ago

I wonder how many people returning lost goods actually claim the 5-20% they're entitled to. I lost my bag once (with my wallet in it). I went to the police box closest to the area where I'd lost it, and of course they had it. Someone had picked it up and turned it in. The officer I talked to explained to me that the finder was entitled to a percentage, but had checked a box on the form waiving the finder's fee. And to be honest, I don't think I'd claim anything either if I turned in someone's wallet.

Duff 16y ago

These stories have the odor of propaganda to them. I'd argue that there's no looting because refugees are penned up in shelters inland, and the coastal towns are pretty much gone. In Katrina and Haiti, people were stuck in the immediate area of destruction, and didn't have anywhere to go. Remember the guy blogging from the datacenter in New Orleans during the Hurricane? The whole city broke down, there was nowhere to go. In Haiti, the whole place was barely functioning before the earthquake.

stretchwithme 16y ago

Whether Japan is the ideal or not, society needs to reward productive, mutually beneficial action and discourage parasitic behavior. We couldn't even plant crops if other people could easily reap the results. The US has been failing at that quite a bit in some areas of the economy. We encourage unwise risk taking, while shifting the consequences to those who produce. That is unscalable and unsustainable.

davej 16y ago

I found it interesting that a lot of supermarkets in Japan lowered their prices following the earthquake/tsunami. This is despite the fact that they were disincentivised to do so because obviously the potential for profit on foods and commodities is high after a natural disaster.

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vjk2005 16y ago

I've been studying them for a few years now and will now offer my observations to those interested. The reason why there's no looting in Japan is a result of their uniquely homogeneous population combined with the unique culture that they have been forced to develop as a result of their perilous location, where there's a quake every 5 minutes on average, where tsunamis are so abundant they came up with the name 'tsunami' in the first place, and where there's no dearth of fires and typhoons. To deal with this high probability of disaster, they have become ants(updated below). What's that? Ants live in a world where disasters many orders of magnitude more than an individual ant can handle, occur multiple times a day - colonies getting crushed by predators, flooded with water from human habitats, food they chance upon is multiple hundred times an individual ant's weight etc etc. To deal with this, they have evolved into the 'superorganism', which is a fancy word for saying every individual will put the community first and themselves second, which enables the whole colony to move and work as if it has -one and the same- mind. So if a colony gets destroyed, there's no looting or in-fighting in ant-colonies... they all move as if they possess the same mind, with the ants who were in-charge of foraging for food run out as a team to find the next suitable space for the colony while the ants in-charge of the colony' larvae protect it for the moment till the time is right to re-locate and so on. Becoming a superorganism is the only way for the ants to deal with the catastrophe of the magnitude that they face everyday and still ensure the survival of the majority of the colony successfully - they have to put the colony first and the individual second. Unlike the simple minded ants, humans are far more intelligent, hence independent, than ants, making it harder for human societies to function with the kind of 'one-ness' the ant colonies show. But the Japanese, thanks to their largely homogeneous population, are the closest human equivalent to the superorganism. Being in a country where they know that a disaster of such magnitude is inevitable, they have evolved into a culture of disaster recovery than disaster prevention -"It's not possible to prevent disasters, too numerous, too powerful. So let's focus on recovering from the disasters with the least cost to time, people and resources." They do this by being fast & efficient(you know where JIT, Kaizen come from) and function as if having the same mind (even their language has evolved to support this way of functioning with the strange third-person like way of speaking which I believe is called 気遣い, kidukai or consideration). By trying to become a superorganism, they achieve the same benefits that the ants do - incredibly fast and efficient disaster recovery, but they also show the same side-effects - no looting or in-fighting, fiercely protective of their homogeneity (again, their language has evolved to support this with something called Katakana where non-native words like 'Advanced Cartridge Slot' are turned into pure Japanese sounds - アドバンスカートリッジスロット which is pronounced as adobansukaatorijjisurotto, all native Japanese sounds), clearly visible patterns in the way they work, highly rigid social pecking order (Senpai+Kouhai, gekokujō), outliers will be punished and so on. This unique culture is why they survived a 'surprise' nuclear attack (emphasis on surprise as it is many orders of magnitude easier to deal with something you know about than it is to deal with something that is happening for the first time in history) and came back to be who they are today. This is all made possible by their homogeneous population and such strategies will fall flat on its face anywhere outside of Japan. Just my 2 cents. update: My comparison with the ant-colonies is not meant to belittle the Japanese but to show how their community has evolved similar to the ant-colony superorganism. If tiger communities behaved like a superorganism I'd have used tigers. The focus of my comment is on the 'nature' of ants and not on their physical properties. 俺の国語より日本語上手いんだぜ。大好きっていうレヴェルで住むことじゃねよ。なんで好きな人たちの悪口言うわけ！

dhughes 16y ago

I work with a Japanese woman she's about 30 years-old and has been here in Canada for at least ten years (a guess) and I can confirm that she is polite and courteous to the extreme. It's embarrassing to see the contrast of some of my fellow Canadian co-workers' manners they eat with their mouths open, talk with food in their mouth, suck their teeth, turn up the TV in the break room with others in there just because they want to watch TV, walk in front of elderly people - so infuriatingly self-centered. Customers at work keep asking her about Japan and if her family was injured and she politely answers they're OK but day after day people keep asking as if they think they are the first to think to ask her the obvious instead of having some common sense and keep their mouths shut. People think of Canadians as polite but Japan certainly holds the top spot for manners of all nations on this planet if all Japanese people are like my co-worker friend. If we ever had a disaster here I know of at least one person who won't be opportunistic and rob me when I'm down.

wyclif 16y ago
I agree on the politeness observation; I've been all over the world, but Japan is the only place where an employee at a Starbucks coffee kiosk thanked me three times for purchasing an espresso.
elai 16y ago
There are disadvantages and advantages to politeness. A polite society tends to be more disconnected, less intimate and harder to make friends with in vs. a more intimate, but possibly a bit more "rude" society too: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0213/cover.html http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0213/cover.h...

MaysonL 16y ago

Perhaps it's a myth? See: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/03/why-no-looting-in-japan-ctd-3.html http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/03...

kadobaro 16y ago

So little looting? Hate to burst your bubble, but the Japanese news is full of scammers pocketing money "for earthquake victims", people stealing from charity boxes, and looting. Yes, looting. I can't find many news articles other than in Japanese, but here we go. Just use Google translate (http://translate.google.com/ http://translate.google.com/). Since the earthquake, there were over 250 cases of looting in Sendai alone. http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date3&k=2011031900317 http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date3&k=2011031900317 Here's a nice article that mentions people trying to break into ATMs right after the quake. http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000211 http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000211 Here's just one about stealing from charity boxes. There were probably 4 or 5 articles today. http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000250 http://www.jiji.com/jc/eqa?g=eqa_date2&k=2011032000250 Stuff is happening, it's just not getting translated into your news.

fadzlan 16y ago
While that is true, I think the looting cases there could be viewed as an exception, as compared to widespread looting that happens just after natural disaster anywhere else in the world.

mynameishere 16y ago

The next time the entire state of Iowa floods, I want to see endless articles about why midwestern white people don't loot. Don't bother, here's the reason: Most people don't loot. The default "loot bit" on most people is firmly OFF. In New Orleans, people loot. That also doesn't warrant a lot of analysis.

known 16y ago

"The nail that stands out will be hammered down." -- Japanese Proverb

michaelochurch 16y ago

One important note: most Americans are honest and some will go well out of their way to do the right thing. I think there's actually more of the latter (people going well out of their way to help others) in the U.S. than in many other countries. If you lose something in the U.S. and there's a way for a person who finds it to return it to you, your odds are well above 50% of getting it back. Possibly 90%. This number is pretty constant across racial and geographic lines. Oddly enough, measured honestly rates tend to be slightly lower at the socioeconomic top and bottom than in the middle. At the bottom, it's because of economic desperation. At the top, it's because people are so used to a sense of winning and entitlement that they enjoy "beating the system". I'd argue that, at all levels, class-based resentments are the reason for lower levels of honesty among Americans. Japan has something much closer to a "middle-class society" or classlessness than we do. They have rich and poor, but not in the way we do, and economic status doesn't persist over generations as in the U.S. For example, the earthquake victims are in for a very difficult few years-- more difficult than most people in the industrialized world ever experience-- but they're not going to fall to the bottom of society because of this. In the U.S., they easily could. I know PhDs in the U.S. who end up in $7/hour retail jobs after developing health problems, losing their jobs, their insurance, and their savings. The biggest difference in the U.S. is that we have a large, angry underclass that (justly) considers itself failed by society and hates it. We also have a tiny but invincible upper class that gets away with literal robbery and tends to set the moral pace in our society: kids in academic cheating scandals generally say they're just preparing for the real world, and they're more accurate than we'd like to admit. "Most people cheat" is false, but "most of society's biggest winners are cheaters" is true. I think the contempt for society and ethical behavior that you see in a visible few Americans is based in social class, not anything else. Every society has poor people, but our underclass comprises 20-40 percent of the population. It has a mix of people who've fallen into it recently (from the disintegrated bottom of the middle class) and who are angry, and it has families that have been in it for tens of generations and have been nurturing grudges forever. Also, not all looters and ruffians are in this underclass, because there are a lot of opportunistic middle-class people who adopt "thug" culture for kicks. In the U.S., we enable cultural illnesses (mean-spirited conservatism, religious bigotry, lower-class "thug" culture) that other societies have the sense of marginalize.

losethos 16y ago

Now, just work on hording.