6 ms·

Pentagon war game includes scenario for military response to domestic rebellion

16 points by carterklein13 6y ago

non-entity 6y ago
> In early 2025, a cadre of these disaffected Zoomers launch a protest movement. Beginning in “parks, rallies, protests, and coffee shops” — first in Seattle; then New York City; Washington, D.C.; Los Angeles; Las Vegas; and Austin — a group known as Zbellion begins a “global cyber campaign to expose injustice and corruption and to support causes it deem[s] beneficial.” These are the bad guys??? On another note, their profile of zoomers is pretty interesting. Perhaps it might just be the spots I hang out on the internet, but most of us do seem to radicalize easier, or at least fall further to whatever respective side of the economic spectrum.
- commandlinefan 6y ago
  > campaign to expose injustice and corruption ... These are the bad guys??? Propaganda 101: Call yourself the warmest, fuzziest name you can think of, something nobody could ever possibly disagree with.
  - happytoexplain 6y ago
    Actions can be just or unjust regardless of how shrewdly they are portrayed. Logically then, you think the parent post's opinion is biased by propaganda?
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    Seriously... Not referring to the parent comment specifically, but when did people start _openly_ making the argument that naming yourself something magically confers all the benefits of the label? Presumably the overlap of National Socialists with "people in support of their nation implementing socialism" isn't very high.
ethbro 6y ago
Pentagon has plan for X, for values of X that are possible, is literally the job. Do we want a military with extremely powerful weapons executing a carefully considered and studied plan, or just winging it? And truth be told, joint / cooperative exercises are often more about C2 experience and relationship building and less about the actual objective. "Aliens attack" would be almost as effective at the primary goals. So why not have some fun with it? The Intercept does veer into click-bait occasionally.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  The fact that they are doing their job is not interesting or relevant. What's interesting and important is the specific scenario they are forced to consider, and what it says about the state of the country.
  - silveraxe93 6y ago
    His point is that plans like this are generated regardless of the current state of the country, therefore it says nothing about how polarised or at risk of rebellion America is today.
  - craftinator 6y ago
    The reasons behind this type of planning are interesting, but I wouldn't read too much into them. I've sat in on this type of wargaming before, and generally the workflow is as follows: Military think-tank identifies a situation for which where there is no modern war plan, a situation which could possibly happen if global circumstances change. Think-tank writes up a detailed notional scenario describing the world in which that situation could occur and hands it off to military leaders. Military leaders present it as a war game to their staff, assign different units to different sides. Military staff proceeds to generate plans to win their side of the 'war', possibly executing maneuvers in mock battles or training events, and write up lessons learned and battle tactics and strategies. These write ups are compiled into "war plans" and codified.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
They pay people to come up with scenarios. They range from mundane to far out there. If they didn't make up stuff like this they wouldn't be doing their jobs properly. I'm sure the NCOs had a blast making the PowerPoint for this one.
euroclear 6y ago
>Both the September 11 terrorist attacks and the Great Recession greatly influenced the attitudes of this generation in the United states, and resulted in a feeling of unsettlement and insecurity among Gen Z. I'd be surprised if zoomers cared at all about 9/11, since they would've been too young to remember or process it.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Yes but not too young to be affected by the subsequent laws and wars. Some of these kids have only known our country in a state of endless war.
  - carterklein13 6y ago
    Yeah I have a younger sister who is Gen Z and I'd say it's more to your point. All she knows is the rhetoric that the United States has its back against the wall and, like a caged animal, is scared and frightened and trying to bite the folks trying to help it. I think the notion of American Exceptionalism died with Gen Z, in my opinion, so much so that it can't even be taught in schools. Granted, I'm probably speaking from a point of privilege as my family is from a very urban and developed part of the country which is traditionally more worldly and not so US-centric (NYC). But, I clearly remember what I was taught in middle/high school as a younger millenial, and what my sister is being taught now is totally different in terms of ideology.
orbifold 6y ago
Germany now has 20 million retirees that just got a raise of 3.5%-4.5% in their pensions . Already 1/4 of the population expects to be paid by a dwindling and ageing workforce. Before long 1 adult will have to pay for 4 retirees (in Denmark). This isn't a problem that will lead to military conflict necessarily, but (almost) for sure to a collapse of social safety nets by mid century.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
badloginagain 6y ago
What strikes me about their scenario is how it assumes there is a core group making malware to rob the corporations. While that would make an interesting episode of CSI: Who Cares, it doesn't square with the flash rebellions we've seen since the Arab Spring. The nature of rebellions in our time are sudden, decentralized, massive protest movements with no clear leaders and no clear goals. Much harder to counter one of these protest waves than troll the darknet for anarcho-hipster corporate raiders.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  The "no clear goals" part makes it really hard to satisfy the rebels to the point that they stop the rebellion, too.
deedubaya 6y ago
> Execute order 66.
alexandercrohde 6y ago
If a majority of people are rebelling, then the pentagon's scenario should be how to help that majority reassert control over a runaway executive branch. No harm in having a scenario where a minority of people commit a domestic rebellion.
tomato2juice 6y ago
The Pentagon is expected to plan for every eventuality. If they don't, they'll be blamed for not being prepared. The US had plans to invade British domains, such as Canada, between the two world wars (in which they were both allies) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red
calimac 6y ago
last line of article "peacefully protesting in streets" are these journalists paying any attention to the rioting and violence irrespective of police? double speak everywhere.
mcbrit 6y ago
Consider Clausewitz / On War. Planning and executing an engagement is tactics, coordinating engagements to further the objective of the war is strategy. In modern military thought, a domestic rebellion would be one of a series of engagements in a war. Why was this war game executed / considered in such a stripped down context?
- mcbrit 6y ago
  Clausewitz / On War: 1832. All military thought until today can not be read without first reading Clausewitz to understand to what the author is responding. It's like LISP, but for the military, and in an alternate reality where if every single PFC knew LISP.
dekhn 6y ago
Am I supposed to be shocked, surprised, or enraged by this? It seems fully expected (and desirable) for the military to plan and practice for this.
- carterklein13 6y ago
  I feel like D: interested. Now that I read it, I came to realize that of course the military is preparing for this and a zillion other scenarios as well - I just found this one particularly interesting because I never would have thought about something like this myself.

16 points by carterklein13 6y ago

> In early 2025, a cadre of these disaffected Zoomers launch a protest movement. Beginning in “parks, rallies, protests, and coffee shops” — first in Seattle; then New York City; Washington, D.C.; Los Angeles; Las Vegas; and Austin — a group known as Zbellion begins a “global cyber campaign to expose injustice and corruption and to support causes it deem[s] beneficial.” These are the bad guys??? On another note, their profile of zoomers is pretty interesting. Perhaps it might just be the spots I hang out on the internet, but most of us do seem to radicalize easier, or at least fall further to whatever respective side of the economic spectrum.

commandlinefan 6y ago
> campaign to expose injustice and corruption ... These are the bad guys??? Propaganda 101: Call yourself the warmest, fuzziest name you can think of, something nobody could ever possibly disagree with.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  Actions can be just or unjust regardless of how shrewdly they are portrayed. Logically then, you think the parent post's opinion is biased by propaganda?
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  Seriously... Not referring to the parent comment specifically, but when did people start _openly_ making the argument that naming yourself something magically confers all the benefits of the label? Presumably the overlap of National Socialists with "people in support of their nation implementing socialism" isn't very high.

ethbro 6y ago

Pentagon has plan for X, for values of X that are possible, is literally the job. Do we want a military with extremely powerful weapons executing a carefully considered and studied plan, or just winging it? And truth be told, joint / cooperative exercises are often more about C2 experience and relationship building and less about the actual objective. "Aliens attack" would be almost as effective at the primary goals. So why not have some fun with it? The Intercept does veer into click-bait occasionally.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
happytoexplain 6y ago
The fact that they are doing their job is not interesting or relevant. What's interesting and important is the specific scenario they are forced to consider, and what it says about the state of the country.
- silveraxe93 6y ago
  His point is that plans like this are generated regardless of the current state of the country, therefore it says nothing about how polarised or at risk of rebellion America is today.
- craftinator 6y ago
  The reasons behind this type of planning are interesting, but I wouldn't read too much into them. I've sat in on this type of wargaming before, and generally the workflow is as follows: Military think-tank identifies a situation for which where there is no modern war plan, a situation which could possibly happen if global circumstances change. Think-tank writes up a detailed notional scenario describing the world in which that situation could occur and hands it off to military leaders. Military leaders present it as a war game to their staff, assign different units to different sides. Military staff proceeds to generate plans to win their side of the 'war', possibly executing maneuvers in mock battles or training events, and write up lessons learned and battle tactics and strategies. These write ups are compiled into "war plans" and codified.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

They pay people to come up with scenarios. They range from mundane to far out there. If they didn't make up stuff like this they wouldn't be doing their jobs properly. I'm sure the NCOs had a blast making the PowerPoint for this one.

euroclear 6y ago

>Both the September 11 terrorist attacks and the Great Recession greatly influenced the attitudes of this generation in the United states, and resulted in a feeling of unsettlement and insecurity among Gen Z. I'd be surprised if zoomers cared at all about 9/11, since they would've been too young to remember or process it.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Yes but not too young to be affected by the subsequent laws and wars. Some of these kids have only known our country in a state of endless war.
- carterklein13 6y ago
  Yeah I have a younger sister who is Gen Z and I'd say it's more to your point. All she knows is the rhetoric that the United States has its back against the wall and, like a caged animal, is scared and frightened and trying to bite the folks trying to help it. I think the notion of American Exceptionalism died with Gen Z, in my opinion, so much so that it can't even be taught in schools. Granted, I'm probably speaking from a point of privilege as my family is from a very urban and developed part of the country which is traditionally more worldly and not so US-centric (NYC). But, I clearly remember what I was taught in middle/high school as a younger millenial, and what my sister is being taught now is totally different in terms of ideology.

orbifold 6y ago

Germany now has 20 million retirees that just got a raise of 3.5%-4.5% in their pensions . Already 1/4 of the population expects to be paid by a dwindling and ageing workforce. Before long 1 adult will have to pay for 4 retirees (in Denmark). This isn't a problem that will lead to military conflict necessarily, but (almost) for sure to a collapse of social safety nets by mid century.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

badloginagain 6y ago

What strikes me about their scenario is how it assumes there is a core group making malware to rob the corporations. While that would make an interesting episode of CSI: Who Cares, it doesn't square with the flash rebellions we've seen since the Arab Spring. The nature of rebellions in our time are sudden, decentralized, massive protest movements with no clear leaders and no clear goals. Much harder to counter one of these protest waves than troll the darknet for anarcho-hipster corporate raiders.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
The "no clear goals" part makes it really hard to satisfy the rebels to the point that they stop the rebellion, too.

deedubaya 6y ago

> Execute order 66.

alexandercrohde 6y ago

If a majority of people are rebelling, then the pentagon's scenario should be how to help that majority reassert control over a runaway executive branch. No harm in having a scenario where a minority of people commit a domestic rebellion.

tomato2juice 6y ago

The Pentagon is expected to plan for every eventuality. If they don't, they'll be blamed for not being prepared. The US had plans to invade British domains, such as Canada, between the two world wars (in which they were both allies) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

calimac 6y ago

last line of article "peacefully protesting in streets" are these journalists paying any attention to the rioting and violence irrespective of police? double speak everywhere.

mcbrit 6y ago

Consider Clausewitz / On War. Planning and executing an engagement is tactics, coordinating engagements to further the objective of the war is strategy. In modern military thought, a domestic rebellion would be one of a series of engagements in a war. Why was this war game executed / considered in such a stripped down context?

mcbrit 6y ago
Clausewitz / On War: 1832. All military thought until today can not be read without first reading Clausewitz to understand to what the author is responding. It's like LISP, but for the military, and in an alternate reality where if every single PFC knew LISP.

dekhn 6y ago

Am I supposed to be shocked, surprised, or enraged by this? It seems fully expected (and desirable) for the military to plan and practice for this.

carterklein13 6y ago
I feel like D: interested. Now that I read it, I came to realize that of course the military is preparing for this and a zillion other scenarios as well - I just found this one particularly interesting because I never would have thought about something like this myself.