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I begrudgingly bought a 'Smart TV' just because I wanted a 4K monitor. But I use it as a dumb monitor and watch app-based content through an Apple TV. At least
by geerlingguy 6y ago
I begrudgingly bought a 'Smart TV' just because I wanted a 4K monitor. But I use it as a dumb monitor and watch app-based content through an Apple TV. At least I'm reasonably sure the Apple TV will be updated for 5-10 years, and is a lot more disposable than a giant TV.
My last TV worked great for about 12 years. No way Panasonic would've kept supporting it that long.
Honestly, the thing I hate most about smart TVs, especially budget-conscious ones like the one I bought, is they have terribly slow processors so just to turn on the TV takes like 12 seconds. My old TV had a picture up within 3 seconds of turning it on.
Does any manufacturer make a good TV, or are they all smart now?
- pletnes 6y agoWhat we did for our old tv, was to get a chromecast after 3-4 years. This might be a cheaper and more environmentally friendly approach than yours, as we then buy one «smart-device», but you might end up with 2, over 12 years. But then some (all?) smart tv offerings have issues with terms and conditions, privacy, etc which may make them undesirable for you.
- briffle 6y agoI never hooked up the smart tv to my wireless network. I have heard too many stories about data getting sent back to the manufacturers to sell your watching habits, etc. Instead, I use a Roku, that I know gets updates (and yes, they also sell your watching habits, but so far, nextdns.io's lists block the DNS that roku uses to do this.)
- dathinab 6y agoProblem some do connect to any non secured WiFi they can find.
- katbyte 6y agoI purposely bought and expensive one that’s pure android tv where you can disable all the tracking bits
- jannes 6y agoYou bought an Android device to avoid tracking? lol As long as you're using binaries that were compiled by Google I wouldn't trust them one bit. If you use LineageOS on your TV you might be a little better off.
- katbyte 6y agoAndroid by Sony verses Samsung or webos? I’m happy with my choice.
- briffle 6y agoThat is terrifying.. good to know!
- vardump 6y agoJust remove the antenna? Won't be connecting very far after that!
- 1bc29b36f623ba8 6y agoI have a dummy hotspot with no access to anything whatsoever, and which I allow my TV to connect to. Apart from exposing an undocumented API (with code execution capabilities), and allowing logging in as root over Telnet (without a password), it also tries to fetch software updates over plain HTTP. It's a bloody nightmare. On the plus side, it was possible to disable many of the smart features once I discovered the telnet capability. :D
- gindely 6y agoVulnerabilities are a massive trade off. I want my devices to be open to me, not to anyone. Seems like it should be straight forward to give you access to the device (like "scan this qrcode on the inside of this panel" and you get the private key). One can dream...
- 1bc29b36f623ba8 6y agoYeah, pretty much every single "smart" device I've ever bought has had vulnerabilities that never got patched. It's ridiculous. On the plus side, my 10 year-old laptop still finds a use as an access point/firewall for all those things. :D
- daemin 6y agoDoes anyone know of such hacking that someone has done and documented? I'd be interested in trying to telnet or connect to a Samsung TV that I have, or at least be able to sandbox it somehow.
- ryanianian 6y agoPro-tip: you can usually un-accept privacy policies on Smart TVs and this reverts them to "dumb" TVs. This disables built-in apps and may make "software updates" unavailable but that's actually what you want anyway.
- dividedbyzero 6y agoHow would I do this?
- ryanianian 6y agoIt's buried in settings. On samsung it's in system settings.
- save_ferris 6y agoI recently started looking for a new TV since my old “dumb” TV is starting to have image issues and they all seem to be “smart” these days. Seems like manufacturers have slashed prices by adding adware to the GUI of TV’s. Needless to say, I’ve been incredibly frustrated with my search.
- thisisnico 6y agoLuckily I bought an RCA 55" 4K TV for like 400 CAD, it's 100% dumb, HDMI and other inputs only. Got this two years ago it's probably not like this anymore.
- cptskippy 6y agoI can't speak for their latest and greatest but the LG TVs I've used running webOS (Oled and LCD) work fine without ever being connected to a network. I have a C7P panel I've connected via Ethernet a couple times to update the firmware and it has continued to work offline just fine. They also support CEC so if the devices you're plugging into them support CEC you can just put the TV remove into a drawer and not worry about ever accidentally triggering the SMART features.
- the_pwner224 6y ago> I have a C7P panel I've connected via Ethernet a couple times to update the firmware and it has continued to work offline just fine. You may want to be careful with this. On Amazon Kindles when you connect to WiFi it downloads ads and will keep showing those same ones forever if you never reconnect and let it fetch newer ads. Seems the TV doesn't do it yet, but it could be added in a firmware update. Unrelated, what do you even need firmware updates for on what is effectively a dumb TV?
- Dahoon 6y agoIn my LG OLED there's actually an option to turn off ads in the GUI. It is off by default, amazingly. I've done a GDPR data request and unless they are hiding some of what they collect (which I doubt) they don't really collect anything crazy. The netflix client does a lot of phoning home though but I have blocked everything I don't want to connect.
- jjoonathan 6y agoSony dropped playstation support for my 4K monitor in an irreversible software update, forcing me to buy a smart TV :/ Also: the new smart TV bootloops if it can't connect to the internet for more than a couple weeks at a time (it wants to refresh its screensaver ads). You can run, but you can't hide.
- hanklazard 6y agoThat last part is my nightmare ... which company is it?
- jjoonathan 6y agoTCL. The screens are cheap, but they get you with the ads.
- derekp7 6y agoIf you open up a smart TV, isn't the "smart" part of it basically an embedded ARM cpu SBC, with a somewhat standard connection to the LCD cable? If so, how hard would it be to rip out the smarts and put in a passive HDMI to LCD converter board?
- nitrogen 6y agoThis exact strategy is mentioned elsewhere, and it appears there are people trying to reverse engineer the base firmwares as well.
- TallGuyShort 6y agoI like Amazon's model for this on the Kindle: Kindles are subsidized by ads, so you can buy what is effectively a REALLY cheap tablet from a well-known company if that's most important to you. OR, if you prefer, you can go pay a one-time fee an eliminate ads from the OS.
- stormdennis 6y agoOr you can buy the cheap one with ads and keep it on aircraft mode, longer battery life, no ads. (Download content from PC via USB)
- hanklazard 6y agoSomeone on HN recently floated the idea of a company that would make quality, non-smart electronics and appliances that would also be easily serviceable. I wish this existed and would pay significantly more for products like this. To address your question, I think they’re all “smart” now. I ended up getting a low-end Samsung 4K a few months ago and it’s been good so far. It starts up very quickly, maybe 1-2 seconds. We use it exclusively with an AppleTV because of privacy / advertising concerns that have been raised. I’m just waiting for the day when all TVs require a working internet connection and we have to start hacking their hardware and software to protect our data.
- koolba 6y agoNever add your WiFi credentials you your TV. It doesn’t let you remove them so you’re only option is to create a “dummy” network (ex: phone as a hotspot) and switch to it. Also, watch out for clueless^helpful friends and relatives who try to “fix” your TV’s WiFi.
- gindely 6y ago(ot: should that be clueless^Whelpful, or is there some new convention I'm not aware of? ^ still means "ctrl" right?)
- Spooky23 6y agoYou have to shop for TVs by sorting from high to low pricewise... the cheap TVs are subsidized. For a project a few years ago, I bought a few Samsung commercial signage TVs for a customer whose security requirements prohibited anything like a "smart" TV. At the time they were dumb panels, not sure if that is still true today. You had to understand what you were buying, as some of these displays are designed to show static content.
- michaelt 6y ago> I wanted a 4K monitor You might want something like a Philips BDM4350UC then [1] - brought from the 'large monitor' section of your favourite IT retailer. No smart features whatsoever (and no tuner and no remote). Unfortunately, they only go up to 43-inch - large for a monitor, but not exactly Frank's 2000-inch TV. [1] https://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/BDM4350UC_00/brilliance-4k-ultra-hd-lcd-display https://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/BDM4350UC_00/brilliance-4k-ult...
- the8472 6y agoSearch for public/info/commercial displays if you want dumb(ish) large monitors. https://geizhals.eu/?cat=monplas https://geizhals.eu/?cat=monplas
- ansible 6y ago> ... I wanted a 4K monitor. To all the folks reading at home... I would remind everyone that a TV is not a monitor. I got a relatively inexpensive LG 43in TV to use as a desktop monitor. I've had issues. Beyond the usual "make sure your graphics card actually supports 4K" and such, you also need to take some time to dig through the TV settings when you are using it on a PC. In particular, you definitely want to turn on "game mode" or whatever it will be called. This turns off the internal image processing that can add hundreds of milliseconds of lag to the display output. You'll also need to find the settings to turn off the overscan. Many TVs will, by default, zoom into the center of the image, cutting off the edges a little. I've mostly gotten over the other issues with using a TV as a monitor (color settings and such), but if you want to save yourself some hassle, just get an actual monitor.
- VectorLock 6y agoTVs can make pretty serviceable monitors. I was using a 4K Samsung as a monitor for quite some time and it worked fine, but the "smart TV" features were definitely annoying.
- geerlingguy 6y agoI'm calling what I want for my living room a 'monitor'. I want a TV that's a monitor, basically, not the other way around. For my computer, I use a 32" LG 4K monitor, and it's great. No 'smart' features found there. But I can't find a 4K monitor in the 42-50" range that has multiple HDMI inputs that is not incredibly pricey (e.g. broadcast/commercial realm) I could use in my living room.
- chrisweekly 6y agoCurious why multiple HDMI inputs matter, given a decent A/V receiver (a few hundred bucks) can handle it for you (along with waay better options for audio)?
- DaiPlusPlus 6y agoAVRs are a huge hassle to deal with, and overkill when you only have 2 or 3 devices to switch between and/or don’t have many audio-only devices. AVRs made more sense during the days when we’d have CD players, tape decks, VCRs and DVD player, vinyl record players, cable/satellite STBs, and a game console or two all hooked up. Now it’s just an STB (if you aren’t a cord-cutter), a Roku/AppleTV/Chromecast/FireTV, and maybe a Blu-ray player (or BD-capable games console, which also doubles as a Roku/AppleTV/etc).
- kmonsen 6y agoThey are all smart, because that is actually cheaper. The manufacturers earn money on selling what your view, ads and selling subscriptions. And they make more on this than it costs to make the TV "smart". There was a Vergecast with the Vizio CEO and he said this is the new business model. Notice that both Samsung and Sony are testing with ads on the homescreen, if those two are willing to do this as premium brands you can be sure everyone else will try as well.
- stephen_g 6y agoThe cost to make the TV smart is almost nothing (the software would cost a bit, but from every smart TV I've seen not as much as it should because it's always pretty crappy and janky). The additional BOM cost would be a few dollars at the quantity they make these things in for an ARM SoC and some RAM. I really think he's massively exaggerating. His statements might be more rationalisation because people hate it, but they just want to squeeze more money out of people. But I can't believe that showing some ads and fingerprinting content would net them more than $100 over the life of an average TV. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would pay more than that for a no-ads, no network connection required version.
- rainbowzootsuit 6y agohttps://www.necdisplay.com/ https://www.necdisplay.com/ At most they come with a QAM tuner. Some are a display only. None have smart TV spyware from my browsing their offerings. Fixed a typo
- camhenlin 6y agoI think you might actually want to search for products that are positioned as "monitors". Some of these are pretty reasonably priced and should offer what you're looking for. For example, I am using an LG LG43UD79 currently. This is a 42.5" IPS 60hz 4k "monitor" at a decent price (I think I paid $399 at costco.) it has HDMI and USB-C inputs, but no smart functionality at all, no tv tuner, etc. The color and picture are pretty good after calibration. I normally use the monitor for programming, web browsing, chatting, etc but also do some very light gaming and it is fine for that. I recommend this monitor and am hopeful that there are some more modern equivalents of it when I inevitably upgrade in a few years as I love the large monitors for getting work done.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoI went with RokuTV. They have the best long term support track record for old hardware. 4K Roku hardware is powerful enough. You don't get wedded to a platform that will be abandoned in four years. I have a Samsung smart TV for work tasks that has the most annoying behaviors built into it. It always insists on "identifying" an HDMI source which it can't do because I've never put it onto my network. Roku doesn't appear to do this kind of data exfiltration.
- the_pwner224 6y agoRoku may well be the least worst option, but it does exfiltrate data. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21657930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21657930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21614851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21614851
- syshum 6y agoI honestly do not know why TV Manufacturers have not make the "smart" function upgrade and modular Buy a tv, then in 5 years when I need more functionality I simply upgrade the "smart module" for $50 instead of having to replace the entire TV Of course they would then probably try to make a "as a service" subscription bullshit and it would be worse than we have now so never-mind I retract this comment
- spost 6y agoNo experience (or affiliation) with it, but I’ve heard some good things about https://ironcast.tv/ https://ironcast.tv/
- c22 6y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21302825 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21302825
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- charrondev 6y agoMy LG turns on very quickly, and actually has decent UI. I’m guessing they have a decently powerful processor to power WebOS in there.