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Agreed. There are a fixed number of PhD spots. What sense is there to give that spot to a 66 year old senior rather than someone younger who will actually do so

Agreed. There are a fixed number of PhD spots. What sense is there to give that spot to a 66 year old senior rather than someone younger who will actually do something productive with the expertise and credentials? I'm all for continued learning but can't that be done in a non-credentialed manner that doesn't disadvantage young people?

bananamerica 6y ago
Are we in an alternate reality where 67 year olds immediately drop dead? Is this an episode of Twilight Zone?
- dntbnmpls 6y ago
  No. We are in a world where people don't bother reading comments rationally and jump to conclusions and get upset over nothing. > Are we in an alternate reality where 67 year olds immediately drop dead? This is called a straw man. Where did I say this? Reread my comment calmly and rationally and you'll see I never wrote that. "I'm all for continued learning but can't that be done in a non-credentialed manner that doesn't disadvantage young people?" I'm all for old people living their best lives except when it directly and negatively affects young people for no reason other than pure vanity.
  - bananamerica 6y ago
    Irony is not conducive to good conversations.
bloodorange 6y ago
Mate, most people live to grow old. What fulfillment in life would one have if many productive and/or desierable tasks were reserved for the young? Wouldn't it make the later years even harder for them?
- dntbnmpls 6y ago
  > What fulfillment in life would one have if many productive and/or desierable tasks were reserved for the young? What productive activity is she going to do with her PhD at the age of 66? It's a selfish egotistical vanity project. > Wouldn't it make the later years even harder for them? "Mate" did you read what I wrote? "I'm all for continued learning but can't that be done in a non-credentialed manner that doesn't disadvantage young people?" I'm all for the elderly learning and doing what they want. My problem is when their vanity project hurts younger people. A person with a PhD at 26 has a lot more to contribute than an old person with a PhD at 66. Not only that, the old person getting the PhD at 66 is taking a spot from a 26 year old. That is all. I know the average age here is like 70, so I'm sure people will get upset about it. But from a practical and fairness perspective, I think it's better to let a 26 year old get the PhD and not the 66 year old. Let the 66 year old learn in an "off-credentialed" basis. How about this, you have one slot open in your PhD program. You have equally qualified 26 and 66 year old. Which do you give that spot to? Most sane people would give it to the 26 year old.
  - bloodorange 6y ago
    For some reason, my comment seems to have come across to you with an unintended tone. I was only trying to gently urge you to consider that even the relatively old have some years of life left and we draw the line at different places for different things. For instance, at that age, it is practically impossible that someone can start studying medicine and become a surgeon. In the places where I have lived, there is a small window of time in one's youth where one can study to become a doctor. So, in those societies, they drew a line in a way where for some professions, they did indeed delineate like you suggest. However, in many places the Ph.D doesn't fall on the side of the line where you prefer. However, it is ultimately, just that people draw the line at different places and there will be no decision that will keep everyone happy. So, in this case, perhaps you and I can not come to an agreement given the brief exchange we have had. And with that, mate, I wish you a good day.
marceloabsousa 6y ago
- There are a fixed number of funded PhD spots but there's really no limit to the number of PhD spots in a faculty. I don't know if this was the case but if you can fund your own PhD, very few universities will refuse your admission. Anyway, PhDs are extremely cheap labor - most of the research money is spent on materials/hardware and travel expenses for PIs. - The vast majority of PhDs don't do anything productive with their research topic or work in their research field later on. Doing a PhD is about advancing human knowledge and a lot of personal growth - it has very little to do with productivity. The current trend is that you get burned out and sick of your research area and decide to do something totally different. There are very few areas where you do a PhD for credentials or to advance in your career.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  The amount of possible PhD positions in a department is limited by the number of faculty, because each student needs a supervisor. A supervisor can only supervise so many students at once before he or she feels overworked, and each PhD student to supervise may distract from that scholar's own research.
  - marceloabsousa 6y ago
    Sure it's a finite number but it's not uncommon for a faculty member to have 5+ PhD students. It all depends on the number of post-docs or senior PhDs they have in the group. The major limiting factor is really money - if a faculty member gets a $5M grant, they will hire as many PhDs as they want or even get some faculty hire for the project.
jimbokun 6y ago
> There are a fixed number of PhD spots. In what sense? I'm quite positive the number of PhDs being produced has grown by leaps and bounds over the years.

bananamerica 6y ago

Are we in an alternate reality where 67 year olds immediately drop dead? Is this an episode of Twilight Zone?

dntbnmpls 6y ago
No. We are in a world where people don't bother reading comments rationally and jump to conclusions and get upset over nothing. > Are we in an alternate reality where 67 year olds immediately drop dead? This is called a straw man. Where did I say this? Reread my comment calmly and rationally and you'll see I never wrote that. "I'm all for continued learning but can't that be done in a non-credentialed manner that doesn't disadvantage young people?" I'm all for old people living their best lives except when it directly and negatively affects young people for no reason other than pure vanity.
- bananamerica 6y ago
  Irony is not conducive to good conversations.

bloodorange 6y ago

Mate, most people live to grow old. What fulfillment in life would one have if many productive and/or desierable tasks were reserved for the young? Wouldn't it make the later years even harder for them?

dntbnmpls 6y ago
> What fulfillment in life would one have if many productive and/or desierable tasks were reserved for the young? What productive activity is she going to do with her PhD at the age of 66? It's a selfish egotistical vanity project. > Wouldn't it make the later years even harder for them? "Mate" did you read what I wrote? "I'm all for continued learning but can't that be done in a non-credentialed manner that doesn't disadvantage young people?" I'm all for the elderly learning and doing what they want. My problem is when their vanity project hurts younger people. A person with a PhD at 26 has a lot more to contribute than an old person with a PhD at 66. Not only that, the old person getting the PhD at 66 is taking a spot from a 26 year old. That is all. I know the average age here is like 70, so I'm sure people will get upset about it. But from a practical and fairness perspective, I think it's better to let a 26 year old get the PhD and not the 66 year old. Let the 66 year old learn in an "off-credentialed" basis. How about this, you have one slot open in your PhD program. You have equally qualified 26 and 66 year old. Which do you give that spot to? Most sane people would give it to the 26 year old.
- bloodorange 6y ago
  For some reason, my comment seems to have come across to you with an unintended tone. I was only trying to gently urge you to consider that even the relatively old have some years of life left and we draw the line at different places for different things. For instance, at that age, it is practically impossible that someone can start studying medicine and become a surgeon. In the places where I have lived, there is a small window of time in one's youth where one can study to become a doctor. So, in those societies, they drew a line in a way where for some professions, they did indeed delineate like you suggest. However, in many places the Ph.D doesn't fall on the side of the line where you prefer. However, it is ultimately, just that people draw the line at different places and there will be no decision that will keep everyone happy. So, in this case, perhaps you and I can not come to an agreement given the brief exchange we have had. And with that, mate, I wish you a good day.

marceloabsousa 6y ago

- There are a fixed number of funded PhD spots but there's really no limit to the number of PhD spots in a faculty. I don't know if this was the case but if you can fund your own PhD, very few universities will refuse your admission. Anyway, PhDs are extremely cheap labor - most of the research money is spent on materials/hardware and travel expenses for PIs. - The vast majority of PhDs don't do anything productive with their research topic or work in their research field later on. Doing a PhD is about advancing human knowledge and a lot of personal growth - it has very little to do with productivity. The current trend is that you get burned out and sick of your research area and decide to do something totally different. There are very few areas where you do a PhD for credentials or to advance in your career.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
The amount of possible PhD positions in a department is limited by the number of faculty, because each student needs a supervisor. A supervisor can only supervise so many students at once before he or she feels overworked, and each PhD student to supervise may distract from that scholar's own research.
- marceloabsousa 6y ago
  Sure it's a finite number but it's not uncommon for a faculty member to have 5+ PhD students. It all depends on the number of post-docs or senior PhDs they have in the group. The major limiting factor is really money - if a faculty member gets a $5M grant, they will hire as many PhDs as they want or even get some faculty hire for the project.

jimbokun 6y ago

> There are a fixed number of PhD spots. In what sense? I'm quite positive the number of PhDs being produced has grown by leaps and bounds over the years.