6 ms·

The officers were all arrested and the entire MPD is potentially getting dismantled, so Dallas might take the policy a bit more seriously.

andi999 6y ago
What does getting dismantled mean? You close and reopen with the same people? Or you close and start from scratch with unexperienced ppl (assuming a large pool of applicants)?
- derefr 6y ago
  One obvious option is to build a new police department entirely out of officers poached from the police departments of other counties/states—preferably from cities that manage to have both high racial diversity and low rates of questionable police violence. Other public-servant roles (e.g. postal workers) get relocated between cities this way all the time, being moved to where there’s demand. Another option is to just have no official city police department (i.e. a group with warranted immunity from criminal prosecution for “exercising one’s duties”), only an informal community watch/militia of regular citizens entirely out of the hands of top-down municipal control. There are functional communities that operate this way, e.g. Cheran in Mexico (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37612083 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37612083)
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    I doubt that scales beyond small cities. You would get something far worse with private security. If you have Amazon Prime, you will get the right to refuse to testify though. Fun aside, it should also be noted that the people in your example are armed. I don't think that will meet any love with city dwellers.
  - andi999 6y ago
    One worry is, that looking at Franco Spain, he introduced the Guardia Civil to oppress ppl, and one mechanism was that no officer from the local community was allowed (at that community). That prevented police to fraternize with the local people. Also, could it not be perceived as a punishment for the police officers to get transfered, like: you did good work so please change city.
- virgilp 6y ago
  https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/06/07/Minneapolis-City-Council-majority-announces-plan-to-disband-police-department/3371591568764/ https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/06/07/Minneapolis-City-...
- hav 6y ago
  Reduction of capacity, narrowing of capability and resources diverted to other services intended for situations where (armed) police aren’t required.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  The idea is to close it and not replace it. The only tool in the police toolbox is violence; despite this, they have become catchall first responders despite being wholly unequipped for most scenarios. We should treat drug use and mental illness as public health issues. We should treat homelessness by housing and feeding those who want help. We should treat domestic disputes with social work. These are complex issues that deserve specialized responses.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - andi999 6y ago
    Let me get this right: so no police in that city? Seriously?
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      Yes. Why is this crazy? There’s no natural law that says a society needs a police force as it exists today. Police in the US have only existed since the mid–1800s. In the South, they rose from the ashes of runaway slave patrols; in the North, they were created to quell labor organizing [0]. So the issue is that police as we know it today is intrinsically racist and classist, and we need to entirely reimagine it. [0] https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/ https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/
      - andi999 6y ago
        This is just a perspective from a foreign country. My worry would be would I trust armed neighbourhood vigilantes more than the regular police. I dont know enough about the US, but do you think that would be better?
  - Yetanfou 6y ago
    How are you going to treat violent crime? What are you going to do about street gangs? No amount of social work, hand-holding or counselling will get at those.
jdsully 6y ago
Would they have been arrested were it not for the national uproar?
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Almost certainly not.
slg 6y ago
That was only after days of national and international protests demanding such actions. The entire system is too far gone and needs to be torn down if anyone inside it legitimately views this as a success story.

andi999 6y ago

What does getting dismantled mean? You close and reopen with the same people? Or you close and start from scratch with unexperienced ppl (assuming a large pool of applicants)?

derefr 6y ago
One obvious option is to build a new police department entirely out of officers poached from the police departments of other counties/states—preferably from cities that manage to have both high racial diversity and low rates of questionable police violence. Other public-servant roles (e.g. postal workers) get relocated between cities this way all the time, being moved to where there’s demand. Another option is to just have no official city police department (i.e. a group with warranted immunity from criminal prosecution for “exercising one’s duties”), only an informal community watch/militia of regular citizens entirely out of the hands of top-down municipal control. There are functional communities that operate this way, e.g. Cheran in Mexico (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37612083 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37612083)
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  I doubt that scales beyond small cities. You would get something far worse with private security. If you have Amazon Prime, you will get the right to refuse to testify though. Fun aside, it should also be noted that the people in your example are armed. I don't think that will meet any love with city dwellers.
- andi999 6y ago
  One worry is, that looking at Franco Spain, he introduced the Guardia Civil to oppress ppl, and one mechanism was that no officer from the local community was allowed (at that community). That prevented police to fraternize with the local people. Also, could it not be perceived as a punishment for the police officers to get transfered, like: you did good work so please change city.
virgilp 6y ago
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/06/07/Minneapolis-City-Council-majority-announces-plan-to-disband-police-department/3371591568764/ https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/06/07/Minneapolis-City-...
hav 6y ago
Reduction of capacity, narrowing of capability and resources diverted to other services intended for situations where (armed) police aren’t required.
jakelazaroff 6y ago
The idea is to close it and not replace it. The only tool in the police toolbox is violence; despite this, they have become catchall first responders despite being wholly unequipped for most scenarios. We should treat drug use and mental illness as public health issues. We should treat homelessness by housing and feeding those who want help. We should treat domestic disputes with social work. These are complex issues that deserve specialized responses.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- andi999 6y ago
  Let me get this right: so no police in that city? Seriously?
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    Yes. Why is this crazy? There’s no natural law that says a society needs a police force as it exists today. Police in the US have only existed since the mid–1800s. In the South, they rose from the ashes of runaway slave patrols; in the North, they were created to quell labor organizing [0]. So the issue is that police as we know it today is intrinsically racist and classist, and we need to entirely reimagine it. [0] https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/ https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/
    - andi999 6y ago
      This is just a perspective from a foreign country. My worry would be would I trust armed neighbourhood vigilantes more than the regular police. I dont know enough about the US, but do you think that would be better?
- Yetanfou 6y ago
  How are you going to treat violent crime? What are you going to do about street gangs? No amount of social work, hand-holding or counselling will get at those.

jdsully 6y ago

Would they have been arrested were it not for the national uproar?

ashtonkem 6y ago
Almost certainly not.

slg 6y ago

That was only after days of national and international protests demanding such actions. The entire system is too far gone and needs to be torn down if anyone inside it legitimately views this as a success story.