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> That don't need to be armed with firearms You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. 43 states are "shall-issue" and allow resid

> That don't need to be armed with firearms You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. 43 states are "shall-issue" and allow residents to conceal carry a firearm after completing required training and submitting an application.

newjersey 6y ago
> You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. Can we at least agree that off-duty police officers working as security guards at a hospital or elsewhere should not under any circumstance carry a weapon (other than perhaps a stick or something) while on non-police duty? > Soon, from inside the room, there was shouting, sounds of a scuffle and a loud pop. During an altercation, two off-duty Houston police officers, moonlighting as security guards, had shocked Mr. Pean with a Taser, fired a bullet into his chest, then handcuffed him. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/us/hospital-guns-mental-health.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/us/hospital-guns-mental-h... > Mr. Pean said he was informed of the dismissal of the assault charges against him in a phone call to New York, where he is finishing college. He said he was relieved but remained deeply disturbed by his experience, noting that his family spent more than $100,000 in his defense. “If I was someone else, I could have ended up in jail,” he said. > After the incident, federal health officials conducted an emergency investigation and faulted the hospital for the shooting, saying that St. Joseph had created “immediate jeopardy to the health and safety of its patients” and ordered that it restrict use of weapons and provide more training in dealing with mentally ill patients. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/us/alan-pean-hospital-guns-mental-health.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/us/alan-pean-hospital-gun... In addition, perhaps if a police officer is not "on duty", felony assault charges should not be possible. This may sound harsh but imagine a bus driver goes on a walk and someone hits him on the head with a stick. Does that carry felony assault charges as well? I think many people are saying a police officer's testimony should be void in a court of law if they do not have other evidence (in which case the evidence can stand on its own without the officer's testimony).
- theduder99 6y ago
  imagine a day in the life of an inner city cop and then re-read your post to see how ridiculous it sounds.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Wouldn't it be better to review and synthesize the duty logs of several dozen police officers, maybe grouped by the amount of crime they deal with on average, over several years? People that don't know the average day don't have any basis to accurately imagine the average day, it's not a useful activity at that point.
- rpiguy 6y ago
  Hospitals have millions of dollars worth of equipment, contain huge amounts of narcotics, and deal with psyche patients. They need to be armed. My mother was a nurse and had guns drawn in the hospital by opposing members of a gang there to inspect someone who was shot. There are three main problems. District attorneys who do not like to charge cops. Police unions protecting cops. And the justice system requires a unanimous jury verdict to convict. This is to protect the accused. If you think the riots are crazy now, wait until the jury is hung or acquits Floyd because one juror has doubt. Floyd had fentanyl in his system. The lawyer only needs to convince ONE juror that it wasn’t just Chauvins fault that the fentanyl contributed to it and you can’t know BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that it was all Chauvins fault and boom, he gets off. This has a reasonable probability of happening. I hope it doesn’t and he convicted. But this is the real second wave I am worried about. More than Covid.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
chrisseaton 6y ago
> You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. But most policing tasks don't involve interactions with people looking to fight to the death. Do people really react to being stopped for speeding by starting a firefight? Is that genuinely a routine concern?
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Most police have never had cause to use their firearm while on duty: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-lo...
  - Zarath 6y ago
    Policing doesn't even make it near the top of a list of dangerous professions
- CydeWeys 6y ago
  Statistically speaking it's very rare, yet many cops unjustifiably spend all day of every shift on edge like they could get into a gun battle at any second. And it shows in how frequently cops unjustifiably escalate situations to deadly force that didn't remotely require it.
  - rpiguy 6y ago
    Evidence? Statistics? Most cops are not ready for gun battle at any second.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > Most cops are not ready for gun battle at any second. In the US they've got loaded and cocked guns on their waist belts ready to use in a second. Note that when I was in a literal warzone I didn't even always keep my rifle cocked.
TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
The obvious answer is to make the public less armed than police officers. The less obvious answer is to stop glorifying violence, including gun violence, war porn, drug kingpin lifestyles, cop/detective lifestyles, and other forms of abusive aggression in the media. Considering that the US seems to go insane when a nipple appears on TV without a formal invitation, it's really quite strange that you can watch dramatised blood spurting out of fatal high-calibre organ wounds multiple times an hour - if you really want to.
- shibeouya 6y ago
  This whole riots debacle being endorsed and justified by the media has done more for the cause of gun ownership that the NRA ever could. I never ever considered owning a gun in my entire life, but I have one now and not afraid to use it if needed. Several friends have also done the same. The debate for gun ownership is probably dead for 1 or 2 generations, and I do not want to see a single person blaming anyone about it when I was literally told by the police the other day that I am on my own during the night of looting in NYC.
  - vl 6y ago
    In US liberals have this idea that police will protect them, but in all documented severe crisis events police was first to run away. Which basically means that everyone is on their own, or at least with their friends/neighbors. Anyway, take a two day training course on how to use a gun (not “safety” course), otherwise owning a gun is pretty useless. Also, you need to periodically go to the range, and clean the gun after. And stock pile some ammo when you can - you are not going to be able to get any during any crisis.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    Keep living fear of your shadow bro.
Dumblydorr 6y ago
What's wrong with most police not having lethal weapons? If police are in danger, they can request SWAT backup, specialized firearm users who won't shoot in unwarranted situations. Regular cops could even have tasers or rubber bullets to deal with threats in a less destructive manner. Why do they need lethal force for helping their own citizenry?

newjersey 6y ago

> You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. Can we at least agree that off-duty police officers working as security guards at a hospital or elsewhere should not under any circumstance carry a weapon (other than perhaps a stick or something) while on non-police duty? > Soon, from inside the room, there was shouting, sounds of a scuffle and a loud pop. During an altercation, two off-duty Houston police officers, moonlighting as security guards, had shocked Mr. Pean with a Taser, fired a bullet into his chest, then handcuffed him. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/us/hospital-guns-mental-health.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/us/hospital-guns-mental-h... > Mr. Pean said he was informed of the dismissal of the assault charges against him in a phone call to New York, where he is finishing college. He said he was relieved but remained deeply disturbed by his experience, noting that his family spent more than $100,000 in his defense. “If I was someone else, I could have ended up in jail,” he said. > After the incident, federal health officials conducted an emergency investigation and faulted the hospital for the shooting, saying that St. Joseph had created “immediate jeopardy to the health and safety of its patients” and ordered that it restrict use of weapons and provide more training in dealing with mentally ill patients. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/us/alan-pean-hospital-guns-mental-health.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/us/alan-pean-hospital-gun... In addition, perhaps if a police officer is not "on duty", felony assault charges should not be possible. This may sound harsh but imagine a bus driver goes on a walk and someone hits him on the head with a stick. Does that carry felony assault charges as well? I think many people are saying a police officer's testimony should be void in a court of law if they do not have other evidence (in which case the evidence can stand on its own without the officer's testimony).

theduder99 6y ago
imagine a day in the life of an inner city cop and then re-read your post to see how ridiculous it sounds.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Wouldn't it be better to review and synthesize the duty logs of several dozen police officers, maybe grouped by the amount of crime they deal with on average, over several years? People that don't know the average day don't have any basis to accurately imagine the average day, it's not a useful activity at that point.
rpiguy 6y ago
Hospitals have millions of dollars worth of equipment, contain huge amounts of narcotics, and deal with psyche patients. They need to be armed. My mother was a nurse and had guns drawn in the hospital by opposing members of a gang there to inspect someone who was shot. There are three main problems. District attorneys who do not like to charge cops. Police unions protecting cops. And the justice system requires a unanimous jury verdict to convict. This is to protect the accused. If you think the riots are crazy now, wait until the jury is hung or acquits Floyd because one juror has doubt. Floyd had fentanyl in his system. The lawyer only needs to convince ONE juror that it wasn’t just Chauvins fault that the fentanyl contributed to it and you can’t know BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that it was all Chauvins fault and boom, he gets off. This has a reasonable probability of happening. I hope it doesn’t and he convicted. But this is the real second wave I am worried about. More than Covid.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

chrisseaton 6y ago

> You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. But most policing tasks don't involve interactions with people looking to fight to the death. Do people really react to being stopped for speeding by starting a firefight? Is that genuinely a routine concern?

maxerickson 6y ago
Most police have never had cause to use their firearm while on duty: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-lo...
- Zarath 6y ago
  Policing doesn't even make it near the top of a list of dangerous professions
CydeWeys 6y ago
Statistically speaking it's very rare, yet many cops unjustifiably spend all day of every shift on edge like they could get into a gun battle at any second. And it shows in how frequently cops unjustifiably escalate situations to deadly force that didn't remotely require it.
- rpiguy 6y ago
  Evidence? Statistics? Most cops are not ready for gun battle at any second.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Most cops are not ready for gun battle at any second. In the US they've got loaded and cocked guns on their waist belts ready to use in a second. Note that when I was in a literal warzone I didn't even always keep my rifle cocked.

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago

The obvious answer is to make the public less armed than police officers. The less obvious answer is to stop glorifying violence, including gun violence, war porn, drug kingpin lifestyles, cop/detective lifestyles, and other forms of abusive aggression in the media. Considering that the US seems to go insane when a nipple appears on TV without a formal invitation, it's really quite strange that you can watch dramatised blood spurting out of fatal high-calibre organ wounds multiple times an hour - if you really want to.

shibeouya 6y ago
This whole riots debacle being endorsed and justified by the media has done more for the cause of gun ownership that the NRA ever could. I never ever considered owning a gun in my entire life, but I have one now and not afraid to use it if needed. Several friends have also done the same. The debate for gun ownership is probably dead for 1 or 2 generations, and I do not want to see a single person blaming anyone about it when I was literally told by the police the other day that I am on my own during the night of looting in NYC.
- vl 6y ago
  In US liberals have this idea that police will protect them, but in all documented severe crisis events police was first to run away. Which basically means that everyone is on their own, or at least with their friends/neighbors. Anyway, take a two day training course on how to use a gun (not “safety” course), otherwise owning a gun is pretty useless. Also, you need to periodically go to the range, and clean the gun after. And stock pile some ammo when you can - you are not going to be able to get any during any crisis.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Keep living fear of your shadow bro.

Dumblydorr 6y ago

What's wrong with most police not having lethal weapons? If police are in danger, they can request SWAT backup, specialized firearm users who won't shoot in unwarranted situations. Regular cops could even have tasers or rubber bullets to deal with threats in a less destructive manner. Why do they need lethal force for helping their own citizenry?