4 ms·

Why does everything has to be a war with the US?

0x8BADF00D 6y ago
It so happens that whenever a country amasses more wealth than the US, they are maligned and considered evil. It happened in the 80s with Japan, and it is now happening with China. Except this time, the United States is broke. The US will Balkanize before anything happens to China.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Did it happen in the 80s? There was certainly anti-Japanese sentiment, I've seen the people smashing up Toyotas, but as far as I can tell nobody seriously proposed that Japan was a comparable threat to the Soviet Union.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
  It's probably the concentration camps, organ harvesting, and various other human rights violations, rather than the accumulation of wealth. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/10/asia/xinjiang-china-reeducation-camps-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/10/asia/xinjiang-china-reeducati... https://nypost.com/2019/06/01/chinese-dissidents-are-being-executed-for-their-organs-former-hospital-worker-says/ https://nypost.com/2019/06/01/chinese-dissidents-are-being-e... https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/09/04/757089868/fentanyl-as-a-dark-web-profit-center-from-chinese-labs-to-u-s-streets https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/09/04/7570898...
  - sametmax 6y ago
    There are many countries that do such things, but the US selectively chose who are the ennemy du jour, and most are not tagged as such. In fact, some of them are friends with the US. What's more, I recall the US in the last 2 decades: - went to a war by lying about WMD and against the entire world (at least the world represented by the UN) will, killing thousands - deployed mass surveillance of its own people, introduced bypasses to Habeas corpus and legalized torture using the Patriot Act - elected a man that is at the center of so many Clinton-size scandals in a row it became the new normal Now, I don't even begin to claim I have a superior country, mine has done many terrible things. But let's not pretend the US (or any other superpower's) behavior has anything to do with morality. It's either naive or dishonest. However, labelling everything with "war" is, indeed, a very American thing to do.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
      Whataboutism, I simply stated ongoing actions by the CCP that probably influence people to view them as evil. It's up for people to decide what they view as acceptable, the history of every country is for the most part transparent these days. Laundry listing things other countries do (I disagree they come close to the atrocities committed by the CCP) is not a great defense. I listed CURRENT atrocities being committed by the CCP right now, you picked from our entire history that we as Americans have already expressed outrage (WMD's, etc) I even left out surveillance because all countries seem to be spying on their citizens, though the CCP goes a lot further with no accountability because it's a dictatorship.
  - 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
    No country is perfect, especially the United States. How many war crimes have been committed in the last 50 years? China is not the enemy. We could learn a lot of positive things from them.
    - sametmax 6y ago
      China is in competition with a lot of countries, and in a race for power. And it is a bloody dictature. That's not the point. The point is: why does the US has to formulate systematically its antagonist positions as a War? Given they have the biggest army in the world, this is the best way to have the most violent resolution of this antagonism.
      - 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
        That is due to the military industrial complex, which incentivizes the use of the American war machine.
klyrs 6y ago
I know, let's end that abominable feature of our culture. I call it... the war on war. More seriously... "war" seems to be a byword for "unlimited and opaque budget" so it's attractive to all political stripes; it's also a byword for "we're actually taking this seriously" which is attractive to a large segment of the population.
- owenversteeg 6y ago
  Soon, a series of organizations fighting war will pop up creating the war-on-war industrial complex, necessitating the war on war on war. It's war all the way down.
dkural 6y ago
It's not. US tried to stay out of both World Wars, and was very cooperative with Stalin at the end of WWII. It was dragged into Vietnam by the French. North Korea attacked first. The wars in the Middle East after 9/11, you're right though.
- gumby 6y ago
  Also “war on drugs” “war on poverty”...absurdism. The US stayed legally out of the war in Europe due yes to a strong isolationist movement but also a strong pro-german movement. Without committing troops, Roosevelt tacitly involved the US in the European war (enough deniability that congress would not interfere) and specifically mounted a petroleum embargo in Japan leading to the Japanese decision to bomb Pearl Harbor (not at all blaming the victim — USA — for Japan’s decision). I don’t think you can say though that the us tried to stay out. “Very cooperative with Stalin at the end of WWII” is hardly borne out by the historical record. The US invaded the USSR during its revolution, and long before Yalta both countries were jockeying for post-war position once it became clear that victory over Germany was inevitable. The French asked for help yes but it was no treaty matter (not a NATO issue): the US willingly intervened in both Korea and Viet Nam because of communists being on the other side.
gumby 6y ago
I strongly agree. Whether you think China is butterflies and kittens (I do not) or unspeakably evil (I also do not) it seems like a so-called “war footing” is going to distort priorities and thus be less likely to achieve its goals than simply pushing back wherever the national interest (whatever that might be) Might require it. Even with its current turmoil, the US is a far more resilient society and is more likely to prosper (and that is what prevailing or “victory” should mean) than China in its current configuration.
mleonhard 6y ago
One possible explanation is that the author is a shill for Israel. He served in Israel's military. He has some publications with Israelis, such as "The Glory of the Holy Land." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Kaplan#Early_life_and_career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Kaplan#Early_life_an... Israel benefits heavily from US militarization and US belligerence toward non-allies. Israel invests a lot of money on lobbying US politicians and on PR to influence the US public. I'm not sure how much they spend. Israel receives $3B in military aid from US every year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs...

It so happens that whenever a country amasses more wealth than the US, they are maligned and considered evil. It happened in the 80s with Japan, and it is now happening with China. Except this time, the United States is broke. The US will Balkanize before anything happens to China.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Did it happen in the 80s? There was certainly anti-Japanese sentiment, I've seen the people smashing up Toyotas, but as far as I can tell nobody seriously proposed that Japan was a comparable threat to the Soviet Union.
s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
It's probably the concentration camps, organ harvesting, and various other human rights violations, rather than the accumulation of wealth. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/10/asia/xinjiang-china-reeducation-camps-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/10/asia/xinjiang-china-reeducati... https://nypost.com/2019/06/01/chinese-dissidents-are-being-executed-for-their-organs-former-hospital-worker-says/ https://nypost.com/2019/06/01/chinese-dissidents-are-being-e... https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/09/04/757089868/fentanyl-as-a-dark-web-profit-center-from-chinese-labs-to-u-s-streets https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/09/04/7570898...
- sametmax 6y ago
  There are many countries that do such things, but the US selectively chose who are the ennemy du jour, and most are not tagged as such. In fact, some of them are friends with the US. What's more, I recall the US in the last 2 decades: - went to a war by lying about WMD and against the entire world (at least the world represented by the UN) will, killing thousands - deployed mass surveillance of its own people, introduced bypasses to Habeas corpus and legalized torture using the Patriot Act - elected a man that is at the center of so many Clinton-size scandals in a row it became the new normal Now, I don't even begin to claim I have a superior country, mine has done many terrible things. But let's not pretend the US (or any other superpower's) behavior has anything to do with morality. It's either naive or dishonest. However, labelling everything with "war" is, indeed, a very American thing to do.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
    Whataboutism, I simply stated ongoing actions by the CCP that probably influence people to view them as evil. It's up for people to decide what they view as acceptable, the history of every country is for the most part transparent these days. Laundry listing things other countries do (I disagree they come close to the atrocities committed by the CCP) is not a great defense. I listed CURRENT atrocities being committed by the CCP right now, you picked from our entire history that we as Americans have already expressed outrage (WMD's, etc) I even left out surveillance because all countries seem to be spying on their citizens, though the CCP goes a lot further with no accountability because it's a dictatorship.
- 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
  No country is perfect, especially the United States. How many war crimes have been committed in the last 50 years? China is not the enemy. We could learn a lot of positive things from them.
  - sametmax 6y ago
    China is in competition with a lot of countries, and in a race for power. And it is a bloody dictature. That's not the point. The point is: why does the US has to formulate systematically its antagonist positions as a War? Given they have the biggest army in the world, this is the best way to have the most violent resolution of this antagonism.
    - 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
      That is due to the military industrial complex, which incentivizes the use of the American war machine.

klyrs 6y ago

I know, let's end that abominable feature of our culture. I call it... the war on war. More seriously... "war" seems to be a byword for "unlimited and opaque budget" so it's attractive to all political stripes; it's also a byword for "we're actually taking this seriously" which is attractive to a large segment of the population.

owenversteeg 6y ago
Soon, a series of organizations fighting war will pop up creating the war-on-war industrial complex, necessitating the war on war on war. It's war all the way down.

dkural 6y ago

It's not. US tried to stay out of both World Wars, and was very cooperative with Stalin at the end of WWII. It was dragged into Vietnam by the French. North Korea attacked first. The wars in the Middle East after 9/11, you're right though.

gumby 6y ago
Also “war on drugs” “war on poverty”...absurdism. The US stayed legally out of the war in Europe due yes to a strong isolationist movement but also a strong pro-german movement. Without committing troops, Roosevelt tacitly involved the US in the European war (enough deniability that congress would not interfere) and specifically mounted a petroleum embargo in Japan leading to the Japanese decision to bomb Pearl Harbor (not at all blaming the victim — USA — for Japan’s decision). I don’t think you can say though that the us tried to stay out. “Very cooperative with Stalin at the end of WWII” is hardly borne out by the historical record. The US invaded the USSR during its revolution, and long before Yalta both countries were jockeying for post-war position once it became clear that victory over Germany was inevitable. The French asked for help yes but it was no treaty matter (not a NATO issue): the US willingly intervened in both Korea and Viet Nam because of communists being on the other side.

gumby 6y ago

I strongly agree. Whether you think China is butterflies and kittens (I do not) or unspeakably evil (I also do not) it seems like a so-called “war footing” is going to distort priorities and thus be less likely to achieve its goals than simply pushing back wherever the national interest (whatever that might be) Might require it. Even with its current turmoil, the US is a far more resilient society and is more likely to prosper (and that is what prevailing or “victory” should mean) than China in its current configuration.

mleonhard 6y ago

One possible explanation is that the author is a shill for Israel. He served in Israel's military. He has some publications with Israelis, such as "The Glory of the Holy Land." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Kaplan#Early_life_and_career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Kaplan#Early_life_an... Israel benefits heavily from US militarization and US belligerence toward non-allies. Israel invests a lot of money on lobbying US politicians and on PR to influence the US public. I'm not sure how much they spend. Israel receives $3B in military aid from US every year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs...