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When a 75 year old man is trying to return a police helmet to them, and they push him down causing him to bleed from his head and ears, and they fire two office

When a 75 year old man is trying to return a police helmet to them, and they push him down causing him to bleed from his head and ears, and they fire two officers who did it, and the rest resign from the riot group in purpose in support of the two who pushed him, what else could you possibly expect? https://twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484?s=20 https://twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484?s=20

Larrikin 6y ago
What about when they killed a hit by keeping they knee on his neck while arresting him and preventing anyone from giving him care?
- crooked-v 6y ago
  Unfortunately, for a lot of white people, oppression isn't real until it happens to white people.
  - SN76477 6y ago
    Very true.
  - creddit 6y ago
    Maybe the major point they’re conveying is that in contrast to the George Floyd murder which could be construed to show isolated issues with cops, it’s unavoidable to paint with a broad brush in the Buffalo incident? But still, feel free to assume their race and prejudices because you’re morally superior or whatever.
  - yyyymmddhhmmss 6y ago
    *poor people
  - mythrwy 6y ago
    Here's something I found interesting. I'm not sure how it got calculated because police kill around 1,000 people a year in the US and about 300 black people a year in the US. https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793 https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793 According to this the chance of black male being killed by police (over lifetime?) is 1 in 1000. The chance of a white male being killed is 1 in 2000. The chance of a female being killed is 1 in 33000. I'm not sure what to say here. Are more men getting killed because men behave more violently (well probably)? Or are more men getting killed because of some bias?
    - komali2 6y ago
      > I'm not sure what to say here. Are more men getting killed because men behave more violently (well probably)? Or are more men getting killed because of some bias? If you're taking feedback here mine would be to avoid drawing such enormous conclusion from such a minimal, uncontextualized set of data.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - tartoran 6y ago
      Clearly theres a bias against men, even if they’re not violent they’re perceived as more dangerous because they’re potentially stronger. Men are also more likely to be part of a gang, women, not so much. Now add the race to the mix and black and hispanic men are very high on their radar. We’ve been hearing of racial profiling complaints for a while, for at least 15-20, it is a true thing.
      - sieabahlpark 6y ago
        Men are, on average, stronger than women. That's just how the biology worked out to have men be the original hunters. Doesn't mean women can't be strong but it's easier for a man to get stronger than a woman.
    - SamReidHughes 6y ago
      Look at the question case by case, instead of statistically. You can see that almost all are killed as a result of their own violent behavior towards police or others.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        It appears US police kills more people than police in Russia, or is roughly on par. Most years police in UK kills zero. Do you want to compete with authoritarian states in number of deaths caused by police?
  - Mirioron 6y ago
    What happened to George Floyd has happened to white people too. Tony Timpa was one such victim.[0] Another one was Joseph Hutcheson.[1] Hopefully there can finally be change in the police, so that it doesn't happen again to anyone. [0] https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/yo... [1] https://mashable.com/2015/08/31/dallas-man-dies-police https://mashable.com/2015/08/31/dallas-man-dies-police
    - StillBored 6y ago
      And since the parent is dead, I will add what I was adding there: Personally, I've claimed it has more to do with socio-economic status. So, while there are plenty of stories about well off !white guy being hassled in his own neighborhood, it happens a lot less to people wearing business attire. OTOH, poor white people get hassled at 2AM too. I had white friends in HS who were routinely stopped and searched for drugs by the police simply because they were driving back from their 2AM fast food jobs in their beater cars while cutting through the nice neighborhoods. So, the police definitely judge you and if you come across as a well off member of society your much more likely to be treated well. I've gotten pulled over for a fair number of traffic stops in the past ~20 years. Overwhelmingly I've never gotten a ticket driving a higher end vehicle with the wife/kids present. OTOH, driving the old clunker by myself, 100% hit rate.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - burgerzzz 6y ago
        This. I lived in a small city in Montana where 95% of the population was white. When there are no minorities police will find someone else to target, and usually it's the poor.
    - pmorici 6y ago
      Justine Damound is another one that happened right in Minneapolis recently. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    This statement seems unfair. It is on par with people pointing out that white people did not start to riot after their guy was killed. It does not help the conversation at all. It is unnecessary race baiting.
mythrwy 6y ago
And before resigning, they all walk by the guy bleeding on the ground purposefully not looking. Hard to watch that and not be horrified. I guess this guy has been a constant gadfly at protests for some time. I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not but shocking.
- SN76477 6y ago
  That video is terrible. If even looks as if a second officer is about to strike him again until he is held back by a third officer. But the walking over his body maybe the worst part.
  - loeg 6y ago
    Yeah, at least the two national guardsmen (stuck behind the cop line) check on him as soon as they get a chance.
- non-entity 6y ago
  If I recall correctly, they also instructed other officers to grab the two witnesses. No not protestors, not rioters, witnesses
- rectang 6y ago
  > they all walk by the guy bleeding on the ground purposefully not looking. There's another video, slightly longer, which shows that the police stop after a few more seconds and attend to him. I think they were a bit shocked by severe consequences of the shove and uncertain for a moment (even though it was a predictable result of the heavy-handed approach that the police have been taking that somewhere something like this would happen). What is absolutely not forgivable, though, is lying that he "tripped and fell" on the police report. And it's even more outrageous that dozens of officers are coming together to defend that egregious lie!
  - lreeves 6y ago
    That is incorrect; the police continued to walk past and a member of the National Guard ended up attending to him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE
gridspy 6y ago
How about when a pregnant couple driving home stops at a red light and comes under fire with pepper bullets due to nearby police?
- ta17711771 6y ago
  RIP Dorner
  - tartoran 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings...
  - gowld 6y ago
    RIP the 4 innocent people Dorner murdered.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      Certainly, but the case also illustrates serious issues with policing. During the hunt for Dorner, the LAPD shot up three separate sets of innocent people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt#Truck_misidentifications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_a...
      - ta17711771 6y ago
        Bingo. Alllllso, they burned the house down that he was in, so he wouldn't get his day in court to tell everyone the whole thing was over him reporting excessive force.
  - harryh 6y ago
    I think you might have meant Dorn (as in David Dorn, the ex-cop who was recently killed during looting in St Louis) not Dorner.
tanilama 6y ago
Doesn't feel the consequence is enough. The old man could have been dead.
non-entity 6y ago
I'll have to try and find the comment, but there was a reddit comment I saw linking to several stories from various media outlets describing the 75 year old man as a "violent agitator", which is apparently also the cities story. Ok apparently the original comment must have been edited, as its now deleted and removeddit shows less content than I remember this morning, but here's an article noting how the mayor framed things: https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/buffalo-mayor-calls-protester-shoved-by-police-an-agitator/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/buffalo-mayor-calls-protester-...
- nickt 6y ago
  They also said he tripped until the video emerged.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    That's what bugs me so much. We'd never know if it weren't for video evidence. Police testimony is treated with high regard in the legal system too, maybe in the age of hard video evidence that should go away.
ojbyrne 6y ago
It hasn't been clear to me what "resigned from a riot group" means. Why aren't they all fired for refusing an assignment?
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  My understanding is it's a task force you volunteer for. Presumably you can un-volunteer.
  - ojbyrne 6y ago
    Yes after a little research I see that. The use of the word “resign” seems like impressive PR though, like they were actually sacrificing something for principles.
ComputerGuru 6y ago
I’m afraid the two cops weren’t even fired, they had only been suspended pending investigation. So the rest of the force wasn’t protesting a result in favor of the protestors, they were protesting against even a review of the situation by their peers.
- poidos 6y ago
  This is where people get the "All" from.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  Yes, but the case is officially in national spotlight. There will be careers made on the way it is handled one way or another. Right now the pendulum is not on the cops'side so average politician's choice is obvious. It will be hard to sweep it under the rug. Not impossible. Just hard. The public is weary and between Epstein hitting Netflix and current waves of protests with all the surrounding circumstances ( brick pallets come to mind ), I would not be sure what the result would be.
  - samcheng 6y ago
    The "brick pallet" rumor has been thoroughly debunked. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/investigating-bricks-at-protests https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/investig...
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
      I won't respond to the debunked claim as I did not read enough on it. That said, the fact that bricks may have always been there does not take anything from my argument. The perception of the existence of spontaneous bricks appearing is already part of today's audience. Lie can go around the world faster than truth can put its shoes on.
    - burgerzzz 6y ago
      Thoroughly? Really?
twright 6y ago
It's further been reported that the officers that resigned did so not in solidarity but because the union refuses to legally back them [1]. With the caveat: > “Some of them probably resigned because they support the officer,” said another officer with whom we spoke. “But, for many of us, that’s not true.” [1]: https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-police-ert-members-say-resignation-was-not-in-solidarity-with-suspended-officers https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-p...
- icpmacdo 6y ago
  There is a lot of support for the officers to be clear though https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1269322620316442625 https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1269322620316442625
dorkwood 6y ago
There's another video of a man who approaches a line of police at a protest, likely exchanging a few words but clearly unnarmed and walking very slowly. One police officer walks up to the man and pepper sprays him. As he turns to avoid it, a second police officer approaches, and fires what appears to be a tear gas canister at the man's head from point blank range. Even not knowing what happened leading up to this, it's completely unacceptable behavior. The sheer number of videos just like this one make me ashamed that I ever gave the police the benefit of the doubt in the past. https://mobile.twitter.com/jusalotofpain/status/1267638427723296768 https://mobile.twitter.com/jusalotofpain/status/126763842772...
- fiblye 6y ago
  God, actually shooting the guy in the head was just disgusting. Spraying him is bad enough. The final shot is nothing more than the officer saying he can do absolutely anything he wants up to and including murder (a projectile to the head like that could easily kill a person) and there's nothing that can stop him. And the worst part is he's right. I've been on the fence about giving up my US citizenship and taking on citizenship in my new home. Seeing the rapid decline in freedom these past two decades, and the absolute mess recently has helped me make up my mind. I can't let myself return to such a place. I can't be happy with myself knowing that my tax dollars are supporting human rights violations. I'm just done with it. Sorry for ranting, but man, it's just frustrating seeing everything that's been happening these past few weeks, and seeing everything that's been happening for so long but ignored until recently.
  - bilegeek 6y ago
    I'm actually curious about your thought process. Not trying to be confrontational. I'm not sure which country you are moving to, but the question is the same. With how much power the US has, and how intertwined the world is, do you believe that you are permanently better off out of the country? Sure, the US is by no means all-powerful; but if the US joins China and Russia's descent into the throes of outright authoritarianism, what leads you to believe you are safe? In this scenario, you would arguably be better off at the onset, but these three countries would surely take the rest of the world down with them? Not even outright invasions and occupations, but bog-standard bullying and destabilization, a la South China Sea or Iraq? EDIT: Iraq was invasion and occupation. That maybe wasn't the best example of mere "destabilization" on my part.
junyoon 6y ago
My gosh that’s horrific
29athrowaway 6y ago
Tear gassing pregnant women, shooting at an old man on a wheelchair, attacking journalists, pepper spraying 10 year olds, etc. All this crap while covering their name, badge numbers and turning cameras off. Police unions and their code of silence have enabled all sort of abusive behavior. Also, this: https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/nypd-anna-chambers-rape-probation/ https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/nypd-anna-chambers-rape-... Technically in NY and a few other states, the police can legally kidnap you and rape you without any liability.
- scruple 6y ago
  Police unions are running a protection racket with the cities and municipalities they engage with. I'm at a loss for words for understanding how this even happened. It's a national embarrassment.
pmorici 6y ago
This article from a local news station claims the real reason for the resignations is because the union said they wouldn't provide free legal defense to that particular units officers any longer and the two accused had to pony up for their own defense. Doesn't make any of them look better but an interesting wrinkle. https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-police-ert-members-say-resignation-was-not-in-solidarity-with-suspended-officers https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-p...
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  > Doesn't make any of them look better but an interesting wrinkle. Of course it does. The pragmatic decision not to be without a legal safety net (which even a hypothetical innocent cop would want) is way better than resigning at the first hint of legal accountability.
  - pmorici 6y ago
    Not really. It makes it sound like they know that professional misconduct happens with such frequency in their unit that they can't control themselves. It also turns the story from one of misguided support for a colleague to one of craven self interest. Few if any professions I've ever heard of get blanket legal defense from their union or professional association to defend them against their own blanket misconduct. Soldiers for example manage without it.
    - wutbrodo 6y ago
      > to defend them against their own blanket misconduct. Do they expect defense from blanket misconduct, or from accusations of misconduct while performing their professional duties? There are plenty of rotten cops, and significant institutional rot in police depts, but it's seems unworkable to suggest that they should be on the hook for legal fees to defend against complaints filed in the line of duty. Any system that takes seriously legal complaints against police will inevitably have false positives, which means that even a hypothetically-perfect cop who never does anything wrong risks being exposed to legal fees. > Soldiers for example manage without it. I'm not sure this is a great example; the limiting of rights that soldiers are subject to is pretty despicable IMO; there are plenty of phenomena we'd consider horrific in civil society that have been the norm for thousands of years of military history (hell, the rape problem in the military was treated with as much apathy as the rape problem in _prison_, of course until women started being victims in non-trivial numbers).
webscalist 6y ago
They were telling him to back off. But the old man still approaches. Whatever motives you have, it's better to comply to law enforcement first.
- adrian1973 6y ago
  But it's sad that apparently the reason it is "better to comply to law enforcement first" is not because they will arrest you but because they will pummel you.
- ramblenode 6y ago
  No, he was standing still talking to the officers in front when the lieutenant saw him and told him to move back, at which point he was pushed by the officers in front.
__blockcipher__ 6y ago
The police helmet narrative is actually false. Supposedly he rides a motorcycle and that’s his helmet.
- post_break 6y ago
  If that's true does it make the story any better?
  - 23B1 6y ago
    Do we care about truth or narrative?
roenxi 6y ago
The police are expecting an extremely stressful day where they will be outnumbered by the protestors; possibly by up to an order of magnitude. There is a high risk of physical violence, there is a high risk that the police are going to be attacked politically whatever happens. There is a mood in the air of "believe no cops". Their mindset will be combative, they will be on edge. The old man has to shoulder at least some responsibility here. It was wildly imprudent to get all in-the-face of a police in a civil-unrest situation. He shouldn't have been doing what he did.
- post_break 6y ago
  If that's what we're jumping to, an old man walking up to police, deserves to be pushed to the ground with enough force for him to almost die, then why don't they skip rubber bullets and switch to live ammo? I mean he was just standing there, menacingly right? Think about your grandpa, imagine if he was the one pushed to the ground and now in ICU and tell me again how stressful it must be to stand in full riot gear and have him approach you, alone.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    Things happen to people that they don't deserve. Life is profoundly unfair. I don't know what a US cop looks like on an ordinary day, but that group look like they are expecting trouble. There might be riots or unrest in their recent history. If you approach a group like that, things might happen that you don't deserve. > Think about your grandpa, imagine if he was the one pushed to the ground and now in ICU and tell me again how stressful it must be to stand in full riot gear and have him approach you, alone. Police aren't lab technicians, they work in an environment where they routinely have to deal with violent criminals who have no respect for the law. It would remain a stressful job, even if I don't like the police. And they should have been stressed; they did the wrong thing and are now in a lot of trouble. If anything, they should have been more stressed.
    - seamyb88 6y ago
      >Things happen to people that they don't deserve. Life is profoundly unfair. Yeah let's build more into institutions.
Gibbon1 6y ago
The LAPD shot a homeless man in a wheelchair in the face with a rubber bullet. https://twitter.com/sarahimages/status/1268223068255612930 https://twitter.com/sarahimages/status/1268223068255612930
scruple 6y ago
Watched a video of a girl essentially abducted off of the streets last night in San Diego. 3 unmarked minivans pull up to a family walking home from protests and plain clothes cops pull up and grab her right off the street and threaten to shoot the group if they try to follow. It's literally impossible to tell from the video if this person was just grabbed as part of a human trafficking crime or if they really were cops. It _was_ the cops, in the end, and she was eventually released on bail, but that shit is _nightmarish_. All of these videos that we have been seeing on social media are exposing how this style of policing that we live with today has absolutely no place in our society. edit/ Found a link: https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jun/05/san-diego-police-officer-threatens-shoot-protester/ https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jun/05/san-diego-police-offic...
- ramblenode 6y ago
  > a human trafficking crime or if they really were cops It can also be both [1]. Sex while being detained by the police is not illegal in 35 states and this was really only brought to light after two plainclothes NYPD detectives took an 18 year old woman in an unmarked van and took turns having sex while the other drove. She claims it was rape and that she was handcuffed the entire time. [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/theres-no-such-thing-consensual-sex-when-person-police https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-poli...
  - scruple 6y ago
    I feel like I can't even process what you're telling me here. Why would it be legal? What is the purpose? How could that _not_ be abused? I do remember hearing / reading about this case but this whole "sex while detained by the police is not illegal in 35 states..." thing is not something that I recall and is beyond disturbing.

Larrikin 6y ago

What about when they killed a hit by keeping they knee on his neck while arresting him and preventing anyone from giving him care?

crooked-v 6y ago
Unfortunately, for a lot of white people, oppression isn't real until it happens to white people.
- SN76477 6y ago
  Very true.
- creddit 6y ago
  Maybe the major point they’re conveying is that in contrast to the George Floyd murder which could be construed to show isolated issues with cops, it’s unavoidable to paint with a broad brush in the Buffalo incident? But still, feel free to assume their race and prejudices because you’re morally superior or whatever.
- yyyymmddhhmmss 6y ago
  *poor people
- mythrwy 6y ago
  Here's something I found interesting. I'm not sure how it got calculated because police kill around 1,000 people a year in the US and about 300 black people a year in the US. https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793 https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793 According to this the chance of black male being killed by police (over lifetime?) is 1 in 1000. The chance of a white male being killed is 1 in 2000. The chance of a female being killed is 1 in 33000. I'm not sure what to say here. Are more men getting killed because men behave more violently (well probably)? Or are more men getting killed because of some bias?
  - komali2 6y ago
    > I'm not sure what to say here. Are more men getting killed because men behave more violently (well probably)? Or are more men getting killed because of some bias? If you're taking feedback here mine would be to avoid drawing such enormous conclusion from such a minimal, uncontextualized set of data.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - tartoran 6y ago
    Clearly theres a bias against men, even if they’re not violent they’re perceived as more dangerous because they’re potentially stronger. Men are also more likely to be part of a gang, women, not so much. Now add the race to the mix and black and hispanic men are very high on their radar. We’ve been hearing of racial profiling complaints for a while, for at least 15-20, it is a true thing.
    - sieabahlpark 6y ago
      Men are, on average, stronger than women. That's just how the biology worked out to have men be the original hunters. Doesn't mean women can't be strong but it's easier for a man to get stronger than a woman.
  - SamReidHughes 6y ago
    Look at the question case by case, instead of statistically. You can see that almost all are killed as a result of their own violent behavior towards police or others.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      It appears US police kills more people than police in Russia, or is roughly on par. Most years police in UK kills zero. Do you want to compete with authoritarian states in number of deaths caused by police?
- Mirioron 6y ago
  What happened to George Floyd has happened to white people too. Tony Timpa was one such victim.[0] Another one was Joseph Hutcheson.[1] Hopefully there can finally be change in the police, so that it doesn't happen again to anyone. [0] https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/yo... [1] https://mashable.com/2015/08/31/dallas-man-dies-police https://mashable.com/2015/08/31/dallas-man-dies-police
  - StillBored 6y ago
    And since the parent is dead, I will add what I was adding there: Personally, I've claimed it has more to do with socio-economic status. So, while there are plenty of stories about well off !white guy being hassled in his own neighborhood, it happens a lot less to people wearing business attire. OTOH, poor white people get hassled at 2AM too. I had white friends in HS who were routinely stopped and searched for drugs by the police simply because they were driving back from their 2AM fast food jobs in their beater cars while cutting through the nice neighborhoods. So, the police definitely judge you and if you come across as a well off member of society your much more likely to be treated well. I've gotten pulled over for a fair number of traffic stops in the past ~20 years. Overwhelmingly I've never gotten a ticket driving a higher end vehicle with the wife/kids present. OTOH, driving the old clunker by myself, 100% hit rate.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - burgerzzz 6y ago
      This. I lived in a small city in Montana where 95% of the population was white. When there are no minorities police will find someone else to target, and usually it's the poor.
  - pmorici 6y ago
    Justine Damound is another one that happened right in Minneapolis recently. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  This statement seems unfair. It is on par with people pointing out that white people did not start to riot after their guy was killed. It does not help the conversation at all. It is unnecessary race baiting.

mythrwy 6y ago

And before resigning, they all walk by the guy bleeding on the ground purposefully not looking. Hard to watch that and not be horrified. I guess this guy has been a constant gadfly at protests for some time. I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not but shocking.

SN76477 6y ago
That video is terrible. If even looks as if a second officer is about to strike him again until he is held back by a third officer. But the walking over his body maybe the worst part.
- loeg 6y ago
  Yeah, at least the two national guardsmen (stuck behind the cop line) check on him as soon as they get a chance.
non-entity 6y ago
If I recall correctly, they also instructed other officers to grab the two witnesses. No not protestors, not rioters, witnesses
rectang 6y ago
> they all walk by the guy bleeding on the ground purposefully not looking. There's another video, slightly longer, which shows that the police stop after a few more seconds and attend to him. I think they were a bit shocked by severe consequences of the shove and uncertain for a moment (even though it was a predictable result of the heavy-handed approach that the police have been taking that somewhere something like this would happen). What is absolutely not forgivable, though, is lying that he "tripped and fell" on the police report. And it's even more outrageous that dozens of officers are coming together to defend that egregious lie!
- lreeves 6y ago
  That is incorrect; the police continued to walk past and a member of the National Guard ended up attending to him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE

gridspy 6y ago

How about when a pregnant couple driving home stops at a red light and comes under fire with pepper bullets due to nearby police?

ta17711771 6y ago
RIP Dorner
- tartoran 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings...
- gowld 6y ago
  RIP the 4 innocent people Dorner murdered.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Certainly, but the case also illustrates serious issues with policing. During the hunt for Dorner, the LAPD shot up three separate sets of innocent people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt#Truck_misidentifications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_a...
    - ta17711771 6y ago
      Bingo. Alllllso, they burned the house down that he was in, so he wouldn't get his day in court to tell everyone the whole thing was over him reporting excessive force.
- harryh 6y ago
  I think you might have meant Dorn (as in David Dorn, the ex-cop who was recently killed during looting in St Louis) not Dorner.

tanilama 6y ago

Doesn't feel the consequence is enough. The old man could have been dead.

non-entity 6y ago

I'll have to try and find the comment, but there was a reddit comment I saw linking to several stories from various media outlets describing the 75 year old man as a "violent agitator", which is apparently also the cities story. Ok apparently the original comment must have been edited, as its now deleted and removeddit shows less content than I remember this morning, but here's an article noting how the mayor framed things: https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/buffalo-mayor-calls-protester-shoved-by-police-an-agitator/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/buffalo-mayor-calls-protester-...

nickt 6y ago
They also said he tripped until the video emerged.
- chillacy 6y ago
  That's what bugs me so much. We'd never know if it weren't for video evidence. Police testimony is treated with high regard in the legal system too, maybe in the age of hard video evidence that should go away.

ojbyrne 6y ago

It hasn't been clear to me what "resigned from a riot group" means. Why aren't they all fired for refusing an assignment?

ceejayoz 6y ago
My understanding is it's a task force you volunteer for. Presumably you can un-volunteer.
- ojbyrne 6y ago
  Yes after a little research I see that. The use of the word “resign” seems like impressive PR though, like they were actually sacrificing something for principles.

ComputerGuru 6y ago

I’m afraid the two cops weren’t even fired, they had only been suspended pending investigation. So the rest of the force wasn’t protesting a result in favor of the protestors, they were protesting against even a review of the situation by their peers.

poidos 6y ago
This is where people get the "All" from.
A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
Yes, but the case is officially in national spotlight. There will be careers made on the way it is handled one way or another. Right now the pendulum is not on the cops'side so average politician's choice is obvious. It will be hard to sweep it under the rug. Not impossible. Just hard. The public is weary and between Epstein hitting Netflix and current waves of protests with all the surrounding circumstances ( brick pallets come to mind ), I would not be sure what the result would be.
- samcheng 6y ago
  The "brick pallet" rumor has been thoroughly debunked. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/investigating-bricks-at-protests https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/investig...
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    I won't respond to the debunked claim as I did not read enough on it. That said, the fact that bricks may have always been there does not take anything from my argument. The perception of the existence of spontaneous bricks appearing is already part of today's audience. Lie can go around the world faster than truth can put its shoes on.
  - burgerzzz 6y ago
    Thoroughly? Really?

twright 6y ago

It's further been reported that the officers that resigned did so not in solidarity but because the union refuses to legally back them [1]. With the caveat: > “Some of them probably resigned because they support the officer,” said another officer with whom we spoke. “But, for many of us, that’s not true.” [1]: https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-police-ert-members-say-resignation-was-not-in-solidarity-with-suspended-officers https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-p...

icpmacdo 6y ago
There is a lot of support for the officers to be clear though https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1269322620316442625 https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1269322620316442625

dorkwood 6y ago

There's another video of a man who approaches a line of police at a protest, likely exchanging a few words but clearly unnarmed and walking very slowly. One police officer walks up to the man and pepper sprays him. As he turns to avoid it, a second police officer approaches, and fires what appears to be a tear gas canister at the man's head from point blank range. Even not knowing what happened leading up to this, it's completely unacceptable behavior. The sheer number of videos just like this one make me ashamed that I ever gave the police the benefit of the doubt in the past. https://mobile.twitter.com/jusalotofpain/status/1267638427723296768 https://mobile.twitter.com/jusalotofpain/status/126763842772...

fiblye 6y ago
God, actually shooting the guy in the head was just disgusting. Spraying him is bad enough. The final shot is nothing more than the officer saying he can do absolutely anything he wants up to and including murder (a projectile to the head like that could easily kill a person) and there's nothing that can stop him. And the worst part is he's right. I've been on the fence about giving up my US citizenship and taking on citizenship in my new home. Seeing the rapid decline in freedom these past two decades, and the absolute mess recently has helped me make up my mind. I can't let myself return to such a place. I can't be happy with myself knowing that my tax dollars are supporting human rights violations. I'm just done with it. Sorry for ranting, but man, it's just frustrating seeing everything that's been happening these past few weeks, and seeing everything that's been happening for so long but ignored until recently.
- bilegeek 6y ago
  I'm actually curious about your thought process. Not trying to be confrontational. I'm not sure which country you are moving to, but the question is the same. With how much power the US has, and how intertwined the world is, do you believe that you are permanently better off out of the country? Sure, the US is by no means all-powerful; but if the US joins China and Russia's descent into the throes of outright authoritarianism, what leads you to believe you are safe? In this scenario, you would arguably be better off at the onset, but these three countries would surely take the rest of the world down with them? Not even outright invasions and occupations, but bog-standard bullying and destabilization, a la South China Sea or Iraq? EDIT: Iraq was invasion and occupation. That maybe wasn't the best example of mere "destabilization" on my part.

junyoon 6y ago

My gosh that’s horrific

29athrowaway 6y ago

Tear gassing pregnant women, shooting at an old man on a wheelchair, attacking journalists, pepper spraying 10 year olds, etc. All this crap while covering their name, badge numbers and turning cameras off. Police unions and their code of silence have enabled all sort of abusive behavior. Also, this: https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/nypd-anna-chambers-rape-probation/ https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/nypd-anna-chambers-rape-... Technically in NY and a few other states, the police can legally kidnap you and rape you without any liability.

scruple 6y ago
Police unions are running a protection racket with the cities and municipalities they engage with. I'm at a loss for words for understanding how this even happened. It's a national embarrassment.

pmorici 6y ago

This article from a local news station claims the real reason for the resignations is because the union said they wouldn't provide free legal defense to that particular units officers any longer and the two accused had to pony up for their own defense. Doesn't make any of them look better but an interesting wrinkle. https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-police-ert-members-say-resignation-was-not-in-solidarity-with-suspended-officers https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-p...

wutbrodo 6y ago
> Doesn't make any of them look better but an interesting wrinkle. Of course it does. The pragmatic decision not to be without a legal safety net (which even a hypothetical innocent cop would want) is way better than resigning at the first hint of legal accountability.
- pmorici 6y ago
  Not really. It makes it sound like they know that professional misconduct happens with such frequency in their unit that they can't control themselves. It also turns the story from one of misguided support for a colleague to one of craven self interest. Few if any professions I've ever heard of get blanket legal defense from their union or professional association to defend them against their own blanket misconduct. Soldiers for example manage without it.
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    > to defend them against their own blanket misconduct. Do they expect defense from blanket misconduct, or from accusations of misconduct while performing their professional duties? There are plenty of rotten cops, and significant institutional rot in police depts, but it's seems unworkable to suggest that they should be on the hook for legal fees to defend against complaints filed in the line of duty. Any system that takes seriously legal complaints against police will inevitably have false positives, which means that even a hypothetically-perfect cop who never does anything wrong risks being exposed to legal fees. > Soldiers for example manage without it. I'm not sure this is a great example; the limiting of rights that soldiers are subject to is pretty despicable IMO; there are plenty of phenomena we'd consider horrific in civil society that have been the norm for thousands of years of military history (hell, the rape problem in the military was treated with as much apathy as the rape problem in _prison_, of course until women started being victims in non-trivial numbers).

webscalist 6y ago

They were telling him to back off. But the old man still approaches. Whatever motives you have, it's better to comply to law enforcement first.

adrian1973 6y ago
But it's sad that apparently the reason it is "better to comply to law enforcement first" is not because they will arrest you but because they will pummel you.
ramblenode 6y ago
No, he was standing still talking to the officers in front when the lieutenant saw him and told him to move back, at which point he was pushed by the officers in front.

__blockcipher__ 6y ago

The police helmet narrative is actually false. Supposedly he rides a motorcycle and that’s his helmet.

post_break 6y ago
If that's true does it make the story any better?
- 23B1 6y ago
  Do we care about truth or narrative?

roenxi 6y ago

The police are expecting an extremely stressful day where they will be outnumbered by the protestors; possibly by up to an order of magnitude. There is a high risk of physical violence, there is a high risk that the police are going to be attacked politically whatever happens. There is a mood in the air of "believe no cops". Their mindset will be combative, they will be on edge. The old man has to shoulder at least some responsibility here. It was wildly imprudent to get all in-the-face of a police in a civil-unrest situation. He shouldn't have been doing what he did.

post_break 6y ago
If that's what we're jumping to, an old man walking up to police, deserves to be pushed to the ground with enough force for him to almost die, then why don't they skip rubber bullets and switch to live ammo? I mean he was just standing there, menacingly right? Think about your grandpa, imagine if he was the one pushed to the ground and now in ICU and tell me again how stressful it must be to stand in full riot gear and have him approach you, alone.
- roenxi 6y ago
  Things happen to people that they don't deserve. Life is profoundly unfair. I don't know what a US cop looks like on an ordinary day, but that group look like they are expecting trouble. There might be riots or unrest in their recent history. If you approach a group like that, things might happen that you don't deserve. > Think about your grandpa, imagine if he was the one pushed to the ground and now in ICU and tell me again how stressful it must be to stand in full riot gear and have him approach you, alone. Police aren't lab technicians, they work in an environment where they routinely have to deal with violent criminals who have no respect for the law. It would remain a stressful job, even if I don't like the police. And they should have been stressed; they did the wrong thing and are now in a lot of trouble. If anything, they should have been more stressed.
  - seamyb88 6y ago
    >Things happen to people that they don't deserve. Life is profoundly unfair. Yeah let's build more into institutions.

Gibbon1 6y ago

The LAPD shot a homeless man in a wheelchair in the face with a rubber bullet. https://twitter.com/sarahimages/status/1268223068255612930 https://twitter.com/sarahimages/status/1268223068255612930

scruple 6y ago

Watched a video of a girl essentially abducted off of the streets last night in San Diego. 3 unmarked minivans pull up to a family walking home from protests and plain clothes cops pull up and grab her right off the street and threaten to shoot the group if they try to follow. It's literally impossible to tell from the video if this person was just grabbed as part of a human trafficking crime or if they really were cops. It _was_ the cops, in the end, and she was eventually released on bail, but that shit is _nightmarish_. All of these videos that we have been seeing on social media are exposing how this style of policing that we live with today has absolutely no place in our society. edit/ Found a link: https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jun/05/san-diego-police-officer-threatens-shoot-protester/ https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jun/05/san-diego-police-offic...

ramblenode 6y ago
> a human trafficking crime or if they really were cops It can also be both [1]. Sex while being detained by the police is not illegal in 35 states and this was really only brought to light after two plainclothes NYPD detectives took an 18 year old woman in an unmarked van and took turns having sex while the other drove. She claims it was rape and that she was handcuffed the entire time. [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/theres-no-such-thing-consensual-sex-when-person-police https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-poli...
- scruple 6y ago
  I feel like I can't even process what you're telling me here. Why would it be legal? What is the purpose? How could that _not_ be abused? I do remember hearing / reading about this case but this whole "sex while detained by the police is not illegal in 35 states..." thing is not something that I recall and is beyond disturbing.