10 ms·

Heh, just this week I was struggling to get a device to work with my laptop, until after 90+ minutes I realized there were different types of USB-C, and the one

Heh, just this week I was struggling to get a device to work with my laptop, until after 90+ minutes I realized there were different types of USB-C, and the one I had (the Apple charger cable) only did charging. I needed one that transmitted video, so I then went to order a $10 USB-C, only to realize those also only did charging. Finally found what I needed, but I thought USB-C was finally "universal", but turns out much of that is just marketing... Edit: Turns out the one I just bought ($40 USB-C Apple thunderbolt cable) doesn't even fit into the device because the edges are too thick. Ridiculous

iwalton3 6y ago
I bought a bunch of Micro USB cables for the same reason. Most of the ones I had on hand didn't have data lines as they were only for charging, which can be fun to troubleshoot as devices connected to the cables just don't show up.
- pantalaimon 6y ago
  Those are a special kind of evil. I always made sure to properly mark them to not spend time debugging non-working USB connections.
  - m463 6y ago
    You might want to keep them around, because sometimes you want to ONLY charge a device, without allowing the possibility of a data connection.
    - pantalaimon 6y ago
      Sure but I always flag them with red electrical tape so their true nature becomes obvious
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    Some of them will let you trick the phone into charging with a full 2/3 amps, even though you've plugged it into a laptop or something that would normally show "charging slowly". Obviously you're relying on the laptop circuitry to not burn out, but laptops are typically designed with very robust USB circuitry because people often short them out by putting in broken cables.
sq_ 6y ago
I think it's one of those things where it sounds good as an idea but breaks down in implementation. "Let's design a port/interconnect standard that does everything" is great in concept, but one manufacturer or another is going to leave out bits in the cable to keep costs down or not implement something in their device-side firmware. You end up with the situation we have now where there's insane levels of fragmentation, and you can never be quite sure whether two things are going to work together or not.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Fortunately the time will likely sort it out. We had similar issues with the original USB at the beginning. (When you actually needed extra pci card to support it) Now USB connections "just work". Hopefully it will happen to usb-c as well.
  - harha 6y ago
    Not quite - I use a wired Apple keyboard (otherwise a great keyboard, feels way better than the magic keyboard and the usb on the side connects to my mouse) that doesn’t work on my MacBook unless I use the extension cord, on another MacBook it works without. It might have to do with something with the NVRAM battery being weak but I didn’t have the time to explore further. [1] In theory we should be able to get rid of cables, but that is also a messed up standard, I’d rather connect my keyboard that extends to the mouse than switch devices with Bluetooth. Sounds like we need another standard: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ [1]: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5676379 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5676379
    - fnord123 6y ago
      >In theory we should be able to get rid of cables In theory, but no thanks. I don't want wireless peripherals.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        What's the downside of a wireless keyboard and mouse that just work?
ksec 6y ago
And yes, when you get a USB-C that does data, it could also have been a cable that only do USB 2.0 Speed, or USB 3.1 Speed but not USB 3.2 2x2 Speed. And with USB4 there will be additional layer with Thunderbolt 4. And all these were known since Day 1 in 2016.
sackofmugs 6y ago
That's strange, I've never encountered a usb-c cable that did not support data at all. My understanding (and the article suggests) that charging and data are fine in general, but just not as fast as the device can support. Basically they will charge or transfer data at regular usb or micro-usb speeds.
- MatmaRex 6y ago
  I haven't seen one either but I can easily believe it, as there are proprietary magnetic USB-C adapters that do not support data (they only have 5 or 6 pins). I can imagine a "normal" cable behaving the same way.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    Two pins for power, two pins for data, a pin or two for cable detection, what's the problem with that number of pins?
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      2 data pins is USB 1.X/2.X USB 3.X requires 6 data pins at a minimum. USB type-C cables that only support charging will only have 5-8 pins 1-2 GND, 2-4 VBUS (power) and 1-2 CC (cable connect/config channel) pins. The standard config for charge only cables (e.g. the Nintendo Switch charger) is 2-2-1.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        > 2 data pins is USB 1.X/2.X USB 3.X requires 6 data pins at a minimum. USB-C cables don't have to support 3.X to support data. You only need the two pins. > The standard config for charge only cables (e.g. the Nintendo Switch charger) is 2-2-1. That's a shame. It's really not that much effort to support 2.0 data.
- trav4225 6y ago
  I definitely have encountered this. One was even a device intended for development via USB. For some strange reason, the USB-C cable shipped with the product only supported power, requiring the customer to buy another cable for data transfer.
jagged-chisel 6y ago
I have a MIDI piano that takes USB 2 Type B. I bought a B-to-C cable and it works fine with my laptop and desktop. I decided I needed an extension cable (for connecting a microphone) and I opted for USB-C. The piano's cable doesn't work with the extension, unless you connect it the right way 'round. USB-C shouldn't need a right way 'round...
- dwaite 6y ago
  Generalized extension cables aren't legal with USB for several reasons, including this.
gambiting 6y ago
I have a somewhat similar problem, where my nvme drive enclosure works with the USB-C port on one side of my laptop but not with the other - but both ports should be identical spec wise. Nothing makes sense any more.
- mycall 6y ago
  Does this same thing happen in different operating systems?

iwalton3 6y ago

I bought a bunch of Micro USB cables for the same reason. Most of the ones I had on hand didn't have data lines as they were only for charging, which can be fun to troubleshoot as devices connected to the cables just don't show up.

pantalaimon 6y ago
Those are a special kind of evil. I always made sure to properly mark them to not spend time debugging non-working USB connections.
- m463 6y ago
  You might want to keep them around, because sometimes you want to ONLY charge a device, without allowing the possibility of a data connection.
  - pantalaimon 6y ago
    Sure but I always flag them with red electrical tape so their true nature becomes obvious
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Some of them will let you trick the phone into charging with a full 2/3 amps, even though you've plugged it into a laptop or something that would normally show "charging slowly". Obviously you're relying on the laptop circuitry to not burn out, but laptops are typically designed with very robust USB circuitry because people often short them out by putting in broken cables.

sq_ 6y ago

I think it's one of those things where it sounds good as an idea but breaks down in implementation. "Let's design a port/interconnect standard that does everything" is great in concept, but one manufacturer or another is going to leave out bits in the cable to keep costs down or not implement something in their device-side firmware. You end up with the situation we have now where there's insane levels of fragmentation, and you can never be quite sure whether two things are going to work together or not.

viraptor 6y ago
Fortunately the time will likely sort it out. We had similar issues with the original USB at the beginning. (When you actually needed extra pci card to support it) Now USB connections "just work". Hopefully it will happen to usb-c as well.
- harha 6y ago
  Not quite - I use a wired Apple keyboard (otherwise a great keyboard, feels way better than the magic keyboard and the usb on the side connects to my mouse) that doesn’t work on my MacBook unless I use the extension cord, on another MacBook it works without. It might have to do with something with the NVRAM battery being weak but I didn’t have the time to explore further. [1] In theory we should be able to get rid of cables, but that is also a messed up standard, I’d rather connect my keyboard that extends to the mouse than switch devices with Bluetooth. Sounds like we need another standard: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ [1]: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5676379 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5676379
  - fnord123 6y ago
    >In theory we should be able to get rid of cables In theory, but no thanks. I don't want wireless peripherals.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      What's the downside of a wireless keyboard and mouse that just work?

ksec 6y ago

And yes, when you get a USB-C that does data, it could also have been a cable that only do USB 2.0 Speed, or USB 3.1 Speed but not USB 3.2 2x2 Speed. And with USB4 there will be additional layer with Thunderbolt 4. And all these were known since Day 1 in 2016.

sackofmugs 6y ago

That's strange, I've never encountered a usb-c cable that did not support data at all. My understanding (and the article suggests) that charging and data are fine in general, but just not as fast as the device can support. Basically they will charge or transfer data at regular usb or micro-usb speeds.

MatmaRex 6y ago
I haven't seen one either but I can easily believe it, as there are proprietary magnetic USB-C adapters that do not support data (they only have 5 or 6 pins). I can imagine a "normal" cable behaving the same way.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  Two pins for power, two pins for data, a pin or two for cable detection, what's the problem with that number of pins?
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    2 data pins is USB 1.X/2.X USB 3.X requires 6 data pins at a minimum. USB type-C cables that only support charging will only have 5-8 pins 1-2 GND, 2-4 VBUS (power) and 1-2 CC (cable connect/config channel) pins. The standard config for charge only cables (e.g. the Nintendo Switch charger) is 2-2-1.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      > 2 data pins is USB 1.X/2.X USB 3.X requires 6 data pins at a minimum. USB-C cables don't have to support 3.X to support data. You only need the two pins. > The standard config for charge only cables (e.g. the Nintendo Switch charger) is 2-2-1. That's a shame. It's really not that much effort to support 2.0 data.
trav4225 6y ago
I definitely have encountered this. One was even a device intended for development via USB. For some strange reason, the USB-C cable shipped with the product only supported power, requiring the customer to buy another cable for data transfer.

jagged-chisel 6y ago

I have a MIDI piano that takes USB 2 Type B. I bought a B-to-C cable and it works fine with my laptop and desktop. I decided I needed an extension cable (for connecting a microphone) and I opted for USB-C. The piano's cable doesn't work with the extension, unless you connect it the right way 'round. USB-C shouldn't need a right way 'round...

dwaite 6y ago
Generalized extension cables aren't legal with USB for several reasons, including this.

gambiting 6y ago

I have a somewhat similar problem, where my nvme drive enclosure works with the USB-C port on one side of my laptop but not with the other - but both ports should be identical spec wise. Nothing makes sense any more.

mycall 6y ago
Does this same thing happen in different operating systems?