6 ms·

Just use Debian. Ubuntu is quite literally Debian+bullshit.

by dima55 6y ago

laqq3 6y ago
Seconding the recommendation for Debian. I switched from Ubuntu Mate to Debian (buster) and the experience is quite smooth; most everything works the same, which is no surprise.
mrighele 6y ago
My issue with Debian that I don't want a rolling release, and Debian Stable feels more like "Debian Obsolete" to me (at least it was years ago, maybe now it is different...)
- chipperyman573 6y ago
  I have used Debian for a while (2-3 years) and do not have that feeling.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  It's an LTS, upgrading every two years. No different than many other distros. If you want a more frequently-upgraded distro, consider OpenSuSE Leap (yearly upgrades) or Fedora (upgrades every 6 months).
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Debian testing is basically my distro of choice: if sid is the rolling release, and stable is the LTS version, testing is roughly equivalent to non-LTS Ubuntu: the packages have been tested so you don’t usually get breakage, but they aren’t stale.
  - ckcheng 6y ago
    The packages are somewhat tested, but "you are participating in the development of Debian when you are tracking testing or unstable" [1]. My feeling is Debian testing is a little less stable than non-LTS Ubuntu. See, I'd like to use LXDE, and right now I use Lubuntu. I'm interested in switching to Debian, but then I read someone say Debian testing is "more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices" [2]. Then I look at these best practices [3] and I'm like, I don't really have time for all that... But maybe that person is just overly cautious. So I look at Debian's page [1] for best practices and it wants me to use btrfs or LVM snapshots in case an update puts the system into an unrecoverable position. I... don't think I have time for that. Maybe I can use Debian stable and just get software not available in Debian stable via... snap [4]. Ok, they also list Flatpak and docker, but this is getting frustrating... Is that really the best way to go about this? Because other than snap auto-updating on my machines behind my back, Lubuntu's been working great up to now. So basically, is there a Ubuntu / Lubuntu that just doesn't have snap auto-updates? If anyone knows, I'd really appreciate it! [1]: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_practices_for_testing.2Fsid_users.3F https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_pr... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 [4]: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap
    - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
      I’ve run Debian testing for like 10 years now, and I’ve never been hesitant to apt-get dist-upgrade.
      - ckcheng 6y ago
        Good to know. I felt that way about Ubuntu / Lubuntu for that time too, until now. This gives me some confidence about Debian to put some time into trying it out. Thanks!
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > My feeling is Debian testing is a little less stable than non-LTS Ubuntu. At least a few years ago, Ubuntu's LTS releases were derived from Debian Testing, while Ubuntu's standard releases were derived from Debian Unstable.
      - ckcheng 6y ago
        Oh, didn't know that. That gives me a better sense of "how stable" each is. Thanks!
    - RMPR 6y ago
      You can try Fedora, switched from Ubuntu 16.04, never looked back
- b5n 6y ago
  Check out testing: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade sed -i 's/buster/testing/g' /etc/apt/sources.list sudo apt dist-upgrade Getting security updates from unstable (not required): 1. Pin unstable lower than testing. 2. Configure apt/debsecan as outlined here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725934 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725934
- m463 6y ago
  sounds like you're describing Ubuntu 18.04 :)
nsajko 6y ago
I have the perception (maybe just uneducated guess) that Debian is strictly worse than, say, Arch for personal use. One has to deal with constantly outdated packages, but also with required breaking changes in case of an upgrade from one version to another. EDIT: I was mostly wrong about the "breaking changes", but this seems like a breaking change: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#hidepid-unsupported https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/c... Anyway, those release notes are huge, I'd say it is less painful to maintain an Arch system for personal use because of that. You should update/upgrade more often, but the required interventions, if any, are easy.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  What I really want is a really stable base OS that's managed totally separately from the individual packages I install. It's the experience one gets with MacOS + Homebrew and it's way better than an "... and the kitchen sink" distro that manages your kernel and basic interface-providing software with the same tool & process that installs and updates Super Tux. (yes I know there are ways to use another package manager on a given Linux distro, even homebrew, but I'd rather see a strong distro built around that idea, not even trying to provide every-friggin'-thing in the distro's software repos)
  - nsajko 6y ago
    The BSDs have that philosophy AFAIK.
    - ornornor 6y ago
      Yes, the OS is separate from the rest and the experience much more streamlined than Linux... but it doesn’t support WiFi beyond 802.11n which is too slow for me. If BSD supported modern WiFi I’d have switched to it on my daily laptop long ago!
- tetraca 6y ago
  On sid, I've never had any such issue. I get pretty updated packages and haven't experienced any serious breaking changes, but I also don't do anything that's particularly sensitive or touchy to updates.
amelius 6y ago
NVidia's CUDA only supports Fedora, OpenSUSE, RHEL, CentOS, SLES and Ubuntu, see [1]. So I suppose that rules out Debian (?) [1] https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&target_arch=x86_64 https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&...
- dmm 6y ago
  I use cuda with Debian and Debian in docker containers and it works fine.
divbzero 6y ago
Would Debian be your recommendation for servers as well?
- rumanator 6y ago
  You're joking, right?
- volongoto 6y ago
  In case you are unsure what the sibling means: Debian is primarily a server OS (one of the best). When people talk about Debian, they mostly think about server use. (That's why your question sounds like a joke :) Or maybe it was a joke?)
  - divbzero 6y ago
    Thank you for clarifying! Not intended as a joke :) #noob I’ve used Ubuntu since the 2000s and never really branched out to explore different distros. I’ve added LWN’s Distributions List [1] to my reading list to lessen my ignorance. [1]: https://lwn.net/Distributions/ https://lwn.net/Distributions/

Just use Debian. Ubuntu is quite literally Debian+bullshit.

by dima55 6y ago

Just use Debian. Ubuntu is quite literally Debian+bullshit.

Seconding the recommendation for Debian. I switched from Ubuntu Mate to Debian (buster) and the experience is quite smooth; most everything works the same, which is no surprise.

mrighele 6y ago

My issue with Debian that I don't want a rolling release, and Debian Stable feels more like "Debian Obsolete" to me (at least it was years ago, maybe now it is different...)

chipperyman573 6y ago
I have used Debian for a while (2-3 years) and do not have that feeling.
zozbot234 6y ago
It's an LTS, upgrading every two years. No different than many other distros. If you want a more frequently-upgraded distro, consider OpenSuSE Leap (yearly upgrades) or Fedora (upgrades every 6 months).
fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
Debian testing is basically my distro of choice: if sid is the rolling release, and stable is the LTS version, testing is roughly equivalent to non-LTS Ubuntu: the packages have been tested so you don’t usually get breakage, but they aren’t stale.
- ckcheng 6y ago
  The packages are somewhat tested, but "you are participating in the development of Debian when you are tracking testing or unstable" [1]. My feeling is Debian testing is a little less stable than non-LTS Ubuntu. See, I'd like to use LXDE, and right now I use Lubuntu. I'm interested in switching to Debian, but then I read someone say Debian testing is "more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices" [2]. Then I look at these best practices [3] and I'm like, I don't really have time for all that... But maybe that person is just overly cautious. So I look at Debian's page [1] for best practices and it wants me to use btrfs or LVM snapshots in case an update puts the system into an unrecoverable position. I... don't think I have time for that. Maybe I can use Debian stable and just get software not available in Debian stable via... snap [4]. Ok, they also list Flatpak and docker, but this is getting frustrating... Is that really the best way to go about this? Because other than snap auto-updating on my machines behind my back, Lubuntu's been working great up to now. So basically, is there a Ubuntu / Lubuntu that just doesn't have snap auto-updates? If anyone knows, I'd really appreciate it! [1]: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_practices_for_testing.2Fsid_users.3F https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_pr... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 [4]: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    I’ve run Debian testing for like 10 years now, and I’ve never been hesitant to apt-get dist-upgrade.
    - ckcheng 6y ago
      Good to know. I felt that way about Ubuntu / Lubuntu for that time too, until now. This gives me some confidence about Debian to put some time into trying it out. Thanks!
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > My feeling is Debian testing is a little less stable than non-LTS Ubuntu. At least a few years ago, Ubuntu's LTS releases were derived from Debian Testing, while Ubuntu's standard releases were derived from Debian Unstable.
    - ckcheng 6y ago
      Oh, didn't know that. That gives me a better sense of "how stable" each is. Thanks!
  - RMPR 6y ago
    You can try Fedora, switched from Ubuntu 16.04, never looked back
b5n 6y ago
Check out testing: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade sed -i 's/buster/testing/g' /etc/apt/sources.list sudo apt dist-upgrade Getting security updates from unstable (not required): 1. Pin unstable lower than testing. 2. Configure apt/debsecan as outlined here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725934 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725934
m463 6y ago
sounds like you're describing Ubuntu 18.04 :)

nsajko 6y ago

I have the perception (maybe just uneducated guess) that Debian is strictly worse than, say, Arch for personal use. One has to deal with constantly outdated packages, but also with required breaking changes in case of an upgrade from one version to another. EDIT: I was mostly wrong about the "breaking changes", but this seems like a breaking change: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#hidepid-unsupported https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/c... Anyway, those release notes are huge, I'd say it is less painful to maintain an Arch system for personal use because of that. You should update/upgrade more often, but the required interventions, if any, are easy.

karatestomp 6y ago
What I really want is a really stable base OS that's managed totally separately from the individual packages I install. It's the experience one gets with MacOS + Homebrew and it's way better than an "... and the kitchen sink" distro that manages your kernel and basic interface-providing software with the same tool & process that installs and updates Super Tux. (yes I know there are ways to use another package manager on a given Linux distro, even homebrew, but I'd rather see a strong distro built around that idea, not even trying to provide every-friggin'-thing in the distro's software repos)
- nsajko 6y ago
  The BSDs have that philosophy AFAIK.
  - ornornor 6y ago
    Yes, the OS is separate from the rest and the experience much more streamlined than Linux... but it doesn’t support WiFi beyond 802.11n which is too slow for me. If BSD supported modern WiFi I’d have switched to it on my daily laptop long ago!
tetraca 6y ago
On sid, I've never had any such issue. I get pretty updated packages and haven't experienced any serious breaking changes, but I also don't do anything that's particularly sensitive or touchy to updates.

amelius 6y ago

NVidia's CUDA only supports Fedora, OpenSUSE, RHEL, CentOS, SLES and Ubuntu, see [1]. So I suppose that rules out Debian (?) [1] https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&target_arch=x86_64 https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&...

dmm 6y ago
I use cuda with Debian and Debian in docker containers and it works fine.

divbzero 6y ago

Would Debian be your recommendation for servers as well?

rumanator 6y ago
You're joking, right?
volongoto 6y ago
In case you are unsure what the sibling means: Debian is primarily a server OS (one of the best). When people talk about Debian, they mostly think about server use. (That's why your question sounds like a joke :) Or maybe it was a joke?)
- divbzero 6y ago
  Thank you for clarifying! Not intended as a joke :) #noob I’ve used Ubuntu since the 2000s and never really branched out to explore different distros. I’ve added LWN’s Distributions List [1] to my reading list to lessen my ignorance. [1]: https://lwn.net/Distributions/ https://lwn.net/Distributions/