9 ms·

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

by jimhefferon 6y ago

fxtentacle 6y ago
Me too, but I'm staying on 18 for now because 20 breaks my workflows.
- pmontra 6y ago
  I'm planning to upgrade so you have my attention. What did 20 change to break your workflow?
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    Replacing the chromium apt with an empty package installing a random self-updating snap. In other words, pinning a specific chromium version, for example for selenium automation, is now broken.
    - pmontra 6y ago
      I didn't think about that. Thanks.
__s 6y ago
What's wrong with either of Fedora or Debian?
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Centos is too slow moving to be suitable for desktop use. Fedora updates to a new version every 6 months. Updates in place have historically been less than awesome and it adopts new tech before it is ready with no practical way to run either the old version of fedora or the old version of the software. Example rolling out pulseaudio when it didn't work well. One version I recall went from acceptable font rendering to can't stand to start at it levels of horribleness. The release of gnome 3.0 the release of KDE 4.0.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    I've had the same Fedora install on my laptop for years, at least 4 versions. Never any of the problems you described. Fedora was also the only thing that worked on my new laptop, because every other distro runs a super old kernel. I'm a super happy Fedora user :)
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      I ran fedora from version 1 though I think version 14ish It's entirely possible its better now than it was.
      - dahfizz 6y ago
        Fedora 14 is 10 years old. Linux in general has gotten so much better in that time IMO
        michaelmrose 6y ago
        I didn't fully give up on the red hat ecosystem for years after that I even ran stella based on centos and rebuilt rpms to have software that wasn't packaged for same. This is even still a thing based on Centos 7 and running gnome 2 not a gnome 2 derivative but actual gnome 2. I agree what you say is presumably so however Ubuntu LTS/Debian or arch update cadence, pick one, are still better than updating every 6 months for most users. If I want really up to date software I would like to have it now not months from now. If I have to wait I would like actual stability. Fedora is optimized for testing new tech to be rolled out by red hat not for usage by end users. As it stands you can benefit from the sweat of their brow while not actually using fedora by using something that actually is. Also note that if you install software from additional repos updates between versions may not be as smooth between versions. If you don't package choice is certainly going to be substantially inferior compared to arch or ubuntu.
  - type0 6y ago
    > Centos is too slow moving to be suitable for desktop use. Depends on what you need. CentOS Stream is rolling release. > Updates in place have historically been less than awesome and it adopts new tech before it is ready with no practical way to run either the old version of fedora or the old version of the software. There's Modularity for different software versions. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/modularity/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/modularity/
battery_cowboy 6y ago
Pop!_OS is like Ubuntu (it's based on it), but easier to install and use and doesn't use snaps, it has flatpaks and the usual apt.
quasarj 6y ago
I'm not OP, but I tried Pop!_OS recently, and was quite pleased. It's basically just Ubuntu without the bad parts.
- JaggedJax 6y ago
  The latest POP!_OS release integrated Flatpak instead of Snap into their package manager. It's very well done in that you can choose if you want the deb or the flatpak version and it defaults to the deb as long as one is available.
  - badRNG 6y ago
    The latest release also integrated an excellent window tiling manager into gnome, includes customizable gaps and everything.
  - troyvit 6y ago
    POP!_OS is a fork of Ubuntu though, right? In that case if I try to install chromium using apt-get will it install the snap or the .deb?
    - segf4ult 6y ago
      It will install the .deb because they don’t have snap in Pop OS.
- mekster 6y ago
  I hear about it often lately but what is better with Pop OS? Couldn't figure it out after testing for an hour.
dima55 6y ago
Just use Debian. Ubuntu is quite literally Debian+bullshit.
- laqq3 6y ago
  Seconding the recommendation for Debian. I switched from Ubuntu Mate to Debian (buster) and the experience is quite smooth; most everything works the same, which is no surprise.
- mrighele 6y ago
  My issue with Debian that I don't want a rolling release, and Debian Stable feels more like "Debian Obsolete" to me (at least it was years ago, maybe now it is different...)
  - chipperyman573 6y ago
    I have used Debian for a while (2-3 years) and do not have that feeling.
  - zozbot234 6y ago
    It's an LTS, upgrading every two years. No different than many other distros. If you want a more frequently-upgraded distro, consider OpenSuSE Leap (yearly upgrades) or Fedora (upgrades every 6 months).
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    Debian testing is basically my distro of choice: if sid is the rolling release, and stable is the LTS version, testing is roughly equivalent to non-LTS Ubuntu: the packages have been tested so you don’t usually get breakage, but they aren’t stale.
    - ckcheng 6y ago
      The packages are somewhat tested, but "you are participating in the development of Debian when you are tracking testing or unstable" [1]. My feeling is Debian testing is a little less stable than non-LTS Ubuntu. See, I'd like to use LXDE, and right now I use Lubuntu. I'm interested in switching to Debian, but then I read someone say Debian testing is "more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices" [2]. Then I look at these best practices [3] and I'm like, I don't really have time for all that... But maybe that person is just overly cautious. So I look at Debian's page [1] for best practices and it wants me to use btrfs or LVM snapshots in case an update puts the system into an unrecoverable position. I... don't think I have time for that. Maybe I can use Debian stable and just get software not available in Debian stable via... snap [4]. Ok, they also list Flatpak and docker, but this is getting frustrating... Is that really the best way to go about this? Because other than snap auto-updating on my machines behind my back, Lubuntu's been working great up to now. So basically, is there a Ubuntu / Lubuntu that just doesn't have snap auto-updates? If anyone knows, I'd really appreciate it! [1]: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_practices_for_testing.2Fsid_users.3F https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_pr... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 [4]: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap
Darmody 6y ago
I want a distro that I can trust. I don't know which one yet but I think I'll stay on the Debian family...I'm used to it.
sunsetSamurai 6y ago
I've been using Fedora Gnome for a few months now and it's' been great. Updates frequently and nothing's broken so far.
dathinab 6y ago
If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea. Sure the daunting setup process would fall into the "a hobby" category but once it runs it tends to just keep running as long as you update it from time to time. Using it now for ~5 Years and in that time I had two times problems one was that the new kernel version didn't work with my laptop and another which was fully my fault by doing some "special" boot setup with some custom self written package and not maintaining it. Oh and the only reasons they where problems was because I never setup recovery boot or boot prev. kernel version. Besides that I remember having more work with maintaining Ubuntu when I used it ~8 years ago. Also disclaimer I had some more work like setting up edurom with network manager without using any proper UI for it (nmtui...). It's doable but not properly documented. But non of this is a problem if you "just" use Gnome or KDE or at last part of the tooling from Gnome/KDE. EDIT: But Fedora is probably what you are looking for. Widely used, well maintained and normally up to date.
- Sevaris 6y ago
  Ugh, no. Manjaro is the no-nonsense "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" version of Arch Linux. I stopped using Arch when I found Manjaro and I'm so glad I did. Arch just requires way too much fiddling for it to ever feel "complete" and or finished.
  - non-entity 6y ago
    Does Manjaro do pretty well with wireless and graphics drivers. I honestly want something I can live boot, install and use immediately. I dont mind customizing later, but I've had my fun fighting with getting linux set up.
    - Sevaris 6y ago
      I've tried it on nVidia and AMD systems, and I'd been using it to troubleshoot customer laptops as a technician. Never had issues with drivers.
  - pkulak 6y ago
    The cost of Arch over anything else is 100% in the installation. After that, it IS Manjaro except you are using the real thing, not a derivative. I've had to trouble shoot Arch far less than any other distro I've ever used.
somewhereoutth 6y ago
Mint. It's Ubuntu without the nonsense. I switched when the Unity thing happened, and haven't looked back. This news about snaps reaffirms my confidence in Mint.
- theflyinghorse 6y ago
  I've switched from Ubuntu to Mint a few years back at home, at work I have to use Ubuntu. Functionally, the two are identical for my use case. I love Mint, it just works and there are no surprises as far as I can tell.
  - hvis 6y ago
    Do they do release upgrades yet?
- amelius 6y ago
  Does Mint allow to safely roll-back package manager operations (i.e. without ever failing)? If not, what other distro allows this (other than Nix)? This is the main feature I'm looking for.
  - tams 6y ago
    Guix also has rollbacks (and a learning curve) like Nix(OS). https://guix.gnu.org/ https://guix.gnu.org/
    - amelius 6y ago
      Good to know, but they are not officially supported by NVidia. https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&target_arch=x86_64 https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&...
  - RMPR 6y ago
    Fedora Silverblue
SweetestRug 6y ago
Echoing others here: use Pop_OS or Manjaro. Pop_OS is really the best of Ubuntu, but with sane defaults that respect you. Manjaro just works, every time, every install I try.
- foobazzy 6y ago
  Just wanted to chime in here and say Zorin is good too. It's based on Ubuntu 18.04 + Gnome + some extensions (which make it really beautiful to look at). It's fast and gets out of the way immediately when you want it to. But my laptop (ThinkPad X1 extreme) isn't charging anymore. That happened with other distros too (on MSI prestige). I can't figure out what the problem is.
stanski 6y ago
No one has suggested openSUSE so I'll go ahead and do that. Mature, stable and great-looking (with KDE). Been using it for years, including one installation of their rolling release, Tumbleweed, which is surprisingly stable for a bleeding edge distro.
- type0 6y ago
  For some AMD hardware openSUSE has been more stable for me than Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora. And off course the best KDE support of the bunch is also a plus.
jlarocco 6y ago
I believe you, but I've better luck with other Debian. Until I started using FreeBSD on my desktop a few months ago, I had run Debian on most of my personal machines for ~15 years, and often on work machines. For the most part, I was able to track the testing repo and "apt-get dist-upgrade" once a month, and not really worry about anything. Very few breaking changes, and when there were, it was usually related to proprietary drivers (thank you NVIDIA). IME with Ubuntu on work computers, staying up to date is a much bigger hassle. Besides some of the out of the box settings being brain dead (IMO, of course), upgrading between releases is a pretty big deal with major changes and a lot of breakage. I don't use Gnome or KDE (on either OS), so that probably helps, but I still always plan for Ubuntu upgrades to break stuff on me. With Debian, I configure it how I want, and then it just stays out of the way. With Ubuntu, I feel like Canonical is always trying to change my mind and push things on me.
jamieweb 6y ago
Pop!_OS is what you're looking for IMO.
rumanator 6y ago
> What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby. That's very ironic, because I've found that Ubuntu's shenanigans always end up requiring more time and effort from the user than, say, install Debian and just get on with your life.
freedomben 6y ago
I highly recommend looking at Fedora. I used Ubuntu for years and put up with obnoxious things. I took a job where the deployment target was RHEL so most devs used Fedora. There was a bit to learn (such as apt v. yum) but overall thinks pretty much "just work" if you are using Fedora Workstation. If you don't want Gnome there are spins available and most are pretty solid, but if you really want a "just works" go with the official Workstation.
apotatopot 6y ago
mint is a great option, or debian imo. I've switched between debian, mint, and slackware for years now and its been a lot less overhead recently.
balladeer 6y ago
Back in 2015 I had installed and used Elementary OS - supposed to be a functional Linux distro (inspired by OSX UI 'd say). It wasn't stable at that time. Maybe it's better now.

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

fxtentacle 6y ago

Me too, but I'm staying on 18 for now because 20 breaks my workflows.

pmontra 6y ago
I'm planning to upgrade so you have my attention. What did 20 change to break your workflow?
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  Replacing the chromium apt with an empty package installing a random self-updating snap. In other words, pinning a specific chromium version, for example for selenium automation, is now broken.
  - pmontra 6y ago
    I didn't think about that. Thanks.

__s 6y ago

What's wrong with either of Fedora or Debian?

michaelmrose 6y ago
Centos is too slow moving to be suitable for desktop use. Fedora updates to a new version every 6 months. Updates in place have historically been less than awesome and it adopts new tech before it is ready with no practical way to run either the old version of fedora or the old version of the software. Example rolling out pulseaudio when it didn't work well. One version I recall went from acceptable font rendering to can't stand to start at it levels of horribleness. The release of gnome 3.0 the release of KDE 4.0.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  I've had the same Fedora install on my laptop for years, at least 4 versions. Never any of the problems you described. Fedora was also the only thing that worked on my new laptop, because every other distro runs a super old kernel. I'm a super happy Fedora user :)
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    I ran fedora from version 1 though I think version 14ish It's entirely possible its better now than it was.
    - dahfizz 6y ago
      Fedora 14 is 10 years old. Linux in general has gotten so much better in that time IMO
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        I didn't fully give up on the red hat ecosystem for years after that I even ran stella based on centos and rebuilt rpms to have software that wasn't packaged for same. This is even still a thing based on Centos 7 and running gnome 2 not a gnome 2 derivative but actual gnome 2. I agree what you say is presumably so however Ubuntu LTS/Debian or arch update cadence, pick one, are still better than updating every 6 months for most users. If I want really up to date software I would like to have it now not months from now. If I have to wait I would like actual stability. Fedora is optimized for testing new tech to be rolled out by red hat not for usage by end users. As it stands you can benefit from the sweat of their brow while not actually using fedora by using something that actually is. Also note that if you install software from additional repos updates between versions may not be as smooth between versions. If you don't package choice is certainly going to be substantially inferior compared to arch or ubuntu.
- type0 6y ago
  > Centos is too slow moving to be suitable for desktop use. Depends on what you need. CentOS Stream is rolling release. > Updates in place have historically been less than awesome and it adopts new tech before it is ready with no practical way to run either the old version of fedora or the old version of the software. There's Modularity for different software versions. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/modularity/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/modularity/

battery_cowboy 6y ago

Pop!_OS is like Ubuntu (it's based on it), but easier to install and use and doesn't use snaps, it has flatpaks and the usual apt.

quasarj 6y ago

I'm not OP, but I tried Pop!_OS recently, and was quite pleased. It's basically just Ubuntu without the bad parts.

JaggedJax 6y ago
The latest POP!_OS release integrated Flatpak instead of Snap into their package manager. It's very well done in that you can choose if you want the deb or the flatpak version and it defaults to the deb as long as one is available.
- badRNG 6y ago
  The latest release also integrated an excellent window tiling manager into gnome, includes customizable gaps and everything.
- troyvit 6y ago
  POP!_OS is a fork of Ubuntu though, right? In that case if I try to install chromium using apt-get will it install the snap or the .deb?
  - segf4ult 6y ago
    It will install the .deb because they don’t have snap in Pop OS.
mekster 6y ago
I hear about it often lately but what is better with Pop OS? Couldn't figure it out after testing for an hour.

dima55 6y ago

Just use Debian. Ubuntu is quite literally Debian+bullshit.

laqq3 6y ago
Seconding the recommendation for Debian. I switched from Ubuntu Mate to Debian (buster) and the experience is quite smooth; most everything works the same, which is no surprise.
mrighele 6y ago
My issue with Debian that I don't want a rolling release, and Debian Stable feels more like "Debian Obsolete" to me (at least it was years ago, maybe now it is different...)
- chipperyman573 6y ago
  I have used Debian for a while (2-3 years) and do not have that feeling.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  It's an LTS, upgrading every two years. No different than many other distros. If you want a more frequently-upgraded distro, consider OpenSuSE Leap (yearly upgrades) or Fedora (upgrades every 6 months).
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Debian testing is basically my distro of choice: if sid is the rolling release, and stable is the LTS version, testing is roughly equivalent to non-LTS Ubuntu: the packages have been tested so you don’t usually get breakage, but they aren’t stale.
  - ckcheng 6y ago
    The packages are somewhat tested, but "you are participating in the development of Debian when you are tracking testing or unstable" [1]. My feeling is Debian testing is a little less stable than non-LTS Ubuntu. See, I'd like to use LXDE, and right now I use Lubuntu. I'm interested in switching to Debian, but then I read someone say Debian testing is "more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices" [2]. Then I look at these best practices [3] and I'm like, I don't really have time for all that... But maybe that person is just overly cautious. So I look at Debian's page [1] for best practices and it wants me to use btrfs or LVM snapshots in case an update puts the system into an unrecoverable position. I... don't think I have time for that. Maybe I can use Debian stable and just get software not available in Debian stable via... snap [4]. Ok, they also list Flatpak and docker, but this is getting frustrating... Is that really the best way to go about this? Because other than snap auto-updating on my machines behind my back, Lubuntu's been working great up to now. So basically, is there a Ubuntu / Lubuntu that just doesn't have snap auto-updates? If anyone knows, I'd really appreciate it! [1]: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_practices_for_testing.2Fsid_users.3F https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_pr... [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23038222 [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23044878 [4]: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Snap

Darmody 6y ago

I want a distro that I can trust. I don't know which one yet but I think I'll stay on the Debian family...I'm used to it.

sunsetSamurai 6y ago

I've been using Fedora Gnome for a few months now and it's' been great. Updates frequently and nothing's broken so far.

dathinab 6y ago

If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea. Sure the daunting setup process would fall into the "a hobby" category but once it runs it tends to just keep running as long as you update it from time to time. Using it now for ~5 Years and in that time I had two times problems one was that the new kernel version didn't work with my laptop and another which was fully my fault by doing some "special" boot setup with some custom self written package and not maintaining it. Oh and the only reasons they where problems was because I never setup recovery boot or boot prev. kernel version. Besides that I remember having more work with maintaining Ubuntu when I used it ~8 years ago. Also disclaimer I had some more work like setting up edurom with network manager without using any proper UI for it (nmtui...). It's doable but not properly documented. But non of this is a problem if you "just" use Gnome or KDE or at last part of the tooling from Gnome/KDE. EDIT: But Fedora is probably what you are looking for. Widely used, well maintained and normally up to date.

Sevaris 6y ago
Ugh, no. Manjaro is the no-nonsense "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" version of Arch Linux. I stopped using Arch when I found Manjaro and I'm so glad I did. Arch just requires way too much fiddling for it to ever feel "complete" and or finished.
- non-entity 6y ago
  Does Manjaro do pretty well with wireless and graphics drivers. I honestly want something I can live boot, install and use immediately. I dont mind customizing later, but I've had my fun fighting with getting linux set up.
  - Sevaris 6y ago
    I've tried it on nVidia and AMD systems, and I'd been using it to troubleshoot customer laptops as a technician. Never had issues with drivers.
- pkulak 6y ago
  The cost of Arch over anything else is 100% in the installation. After that, it IS Manjaro except you are using the real thing, not a derivative. I've had to trouble shoot Arch far less than any other distro I've ever used.

somewhereoutth 6y ago

Mint. It's Ubuntu without the nonsense. I switched when the Unity thing happened, and haven't looked back. This news about snaps reaffirms my confidence in Mint.

theflyinghorse 6y ago
I've switched from Ubuntu to Mint a few years back at home, at work I have to use Ubuntu. Functionally, the two are identical for my use case. I love Mint, it just works and there are no surprises as far as I can tell.
- hvis 6y ago
  Do they do release upgrades yet?
amelius 6y ago
Does Mint allow to safely roll-back package manager operations (i.e. without ever failing)? If not, what other distro allows this (other than Nix)? This is the main feature I'm looking for.
- tams 6y ago
  Guix also has rollbacks (and a learning curve) like Nix(OS). https://guix.gnu.org/ https://guix.gnu.org/
  - amelius 6y ago
    Good to know, but they are not officially supported by NVidia. https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&target_arch=x86_64 https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads?target_os=Linux&...
- RMPR 6y ago
  Fedora Silverblue

SweetestRug 6y ago

Echoing others here: use Pop_OS or Manjaro. Pop_OS is really the best of Ubuntu, but with sane defaults that respect you. Manjaro just works, every time, every install I try.

foobazzy 6y ago
Just wanted to chime in here and say Zorin is good too. It's based on Ubuntu 18.04 + Gnome + some extensions (which make it really beautiful to look at). It's fast and gets out of the way immediately when you want it to. But my laptop (ThinkPad X1 extreme) isn't charging anymore. That happened with other distros too (on MSI prestige). I can't figure out what the problem is.

stanski 6y ago

No one has suggested openSUSE so I'll go ahead and do that. Mature, stable and great-looking (with KDE). Been using it for years, including one installation of their rolling release, Tumbleweed, which is surprisingly stable for a bleeding edge distro.

type0 6y ago
For some AMD hardware openSUSE has been more stable for me than Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora. And off course the best KDE support of the bunch is also a plus.

jlarocco 6y ago

I believe you, but I've better luck with other Debian. Until I started using FreeBSD on my desktop a few months ago, I had run Debian on most of my personal machines for ~15 years, and often on work machines. For the most part, I was able to track the testing repo and "apt-get dist-upgrade" once a month, and not really worry about anything. Very few breaking changes, and when there were, it was usually related to proprietary drivers (thank you NVIDIA). IME with Ubuntu on work computers, staying up to date is a much bigger hassle. Besides some of the out of the box settings being brain dead (IMO, of course), upgrading between releases is a pretty big deal with major changes and a lot of breakage. I don't use Gnome or KDE (on either OS), so that probably helps, but I still always plan for Ubuntu upgrades to break stuff on me. With Debian, I configure it how I want, and then it just stays out of the way. With Ubuntu, I feel like Canonical is always trying to change my mind and push things on me.

jamieweb 6y ago

Pop!_OS is what you're looking for IMO.

rumanator 6y ago

> What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby. That's very ironic, because I've found that Ubuntu's shenanigans always end up requiring more time and effort from the user than, say, install Debian and just get on with your life.

freedomben 6y ago

I highly recommend looking at Fedora. I used Ubuntu for years and put up with obnoxious things. I took a job where the deployment target was RHEL so most devs used Fedora. There was a bit to learn (such as apt v. yum) but overall thinks pretty much "just work" if you are using Fedora Workstation. If you don't want Gnome there are spins available and most are pretty solid, but if you really want a "just works" go with the official Workstation.

apotatopot 6y ago

mint is a great option, or debian imo. I've switched between debian, mint, and slackware for years now and its been a lot less overhead recently.

balladeer 6y ago

Back in 2015 I had installed and used Elementary OS - supposed to be a functional Linux distro (inspired by OSX UI 'd say). It wasn't stable at that time. Maybe it's better now.