14 ms·

> I'd share more, but too many people would figure out who it is. Feels like your example is very specific and would not generalize to the average programmer.

john-radio 6y ago
3pt14159 did not say "Any programmer can make $500K by doing open-source full-time for a while," though.
- pc86 6y ago
  But the statement is in response to "this is bad advice for brand new developers." If the advice is so specific you end up doxing the single person in the world who's ever done it, then it sounds like that's a perfectly fair criticism.
  - wongarsu 6y ago
    I think the point is more "this general strategy works for most people; but not everyone is going to get a $500k job from it". It's a reliable strategy to get noticed and make a good impression. How much money you manage to make from that opportunity obviously depends on many more factors.
    - ambicapter 6y ago
      Sounds you're like just walking around the point > It's a reliable strategy to get noticed and make a good impression. If its so reliable, there should be many repeated examples of it happening. So far, all we have is a single case.
    - pc86 6y ago
      The problem is that people are conflating "one guy got lucky and got a $500k remote job" with "here is a repeatable process to generate a full-time income by working on open source on spec." Even getting a $50k remote job is not a guarantee, and telling people to work for free on open source is the Hacker News equivalent of telling a designer that you'll pay them if you like the logo they make you. Only this is much more insidious because you're telling them to work full-time, for free, for "3 or 4 months." We complain about job interviews taking an entire day yet have no problem telling this person to dump 750 hours into something with the hope of "getting noticed."
      - dpweb 6y ago
        People attend college and spend enormous money & time with no guarantees. The unpaid time spent is not throwaway. If I was 19 today - and wanted to code for the most $$$ possible. I wouldn't be in college. I'd be building up skills + know people. Know people even tougher I'd argue for technical people who are often introverts.
        wongarsu 6y ago
        And being a reliable open-source contributor on projects people use can open doors that college could never open. From personal experience Open Source is also a great way to get to know people, especially if the project has an active IRC or Slack.
        maps7 6y ago
        I would love to contribute to open source but in 10+ years I've never found a project. Is there a good website that matches developers to projects?
        pc86 6y ago
        What projects have you used over the last 10 years?
        maps7 6y ago
        Probably a lot of utility ones but none that made me jump into the code
        dennis_jeeves 6y ago
        >People attend college and spend enormous money & time with no guarantees. The unpaid time spent is not throwaway. It is throwaway for most people. 'Most' being >75%. Just my guesstimate. Well there is another way to look at it if you wish, if you want to bolster your self-esteem and confidence by having a college/university degree, then do it. My observation is that most people who do not have a degree suffer a life long I-do-not-have-a-degree self esteem syndrome, despite being just as capable as everyone else.
3pt14159 6y ago
I know many people that did this. Not all of them are making $500k a year, but here is some more examples: - Multiple Rails contributors, one that turned core. Those folks are making well north of $200k a year. - Ember contributors or contributors to projects around ember-data or similar. Multiple people making north of $200k a year. - A guy that dove into contributing to Postgres. He wouldn't even share how much his offer was because it was so insane. The point is that if you actually put in the work to projects and you network and learn from seasoned developers it's going to be far, far better for your career than grinding out little Fiver or Upwork contracts. Put another way: Your pay is related to your skills, your professionalism, and your network. Working on the right OS project exposes you to people that are really good at software. Sure you can do the same working for money at the right company, but this guy isn't in that position. So, in my opinion, his best bet is to skill up and network and contribute. Even if he's applying to remote work positions absent a network, a string of commits to Numpy or Rust is going to look a hell of a lot better than "freelancer that did rinky dink work for marketing guys" or "I built a todo list app to show off my skills" and I don't really see why this is so controversial. I'd like to see a counterpoint, honestly. Someone here that worked on a real OS project for a prolonged period of time that has trouble finding work at a reasonable salary.
- synthc 6y ago
  There is also tons of people that work on OS projects and get paid nothing. The ones that get paid a lot are the exception.
  - derefr 6y ago
    I hypothesize that the people who get paid are the people who actually set out with the goal of getting paid. I really doubt there are many long-time FOSS contributors who want (as their top-level goal) to be paid to do FOSS, but still haven’t managed it after months/years of trying. Most people who do FOSS don’t do it with the goal of being paid for it. Just like most people who play a sport don’t do it with the goal of being paid for it. For most people, it’s either a hobby, or a byproduct of the efforts they go to in their day job (i.e. fixes to their company’s private fork of a FOSS project, that can then sometimes be upstreamed.)

john-radio 6y ago

3pt14159 did not say "Any programmer can make $500K by doing open-source full-time for a while," though.

pc86 6y ago
But the statement is in response to "this is bad advice for brand new developers." If the advice is so specific you end up doxing the single person in the world who's ever done it, then it sounds like that's a perfectly fair criticism.
- wongarsu 6y ago
  I think the point is more "this general strategy works for most people; but not everyone is going to get a $500k job from it". It's a reliable strategy to get noticed and make a good impression. How much money you manage to make from that opportunity obviously depends on many more factors.
  - ambicapter 6y ago
    Sounds you're like just walking around the point > It's a reliable strategy to get noticed and make a good impression. If its so reliable, there should be many repeated examples of it happening. So far, all we have is a single case.
  - pc86 6y ago
    The problem is that people are conflating "one guy got lucky and got a $500k remote job" with "here is a repeatable process to generate a full-time income by working on open source on spec." Even getting a $50k remote job is not a guarantee, and telling people to work for free on open source is the Hacker News equivalent of telling a designer that you'll pay them if you like the logo they make you. Only this is much more insidious because you're telling them to work full-time, for free, for "3 or 4 months." We complain about job interviews taking an entire day yet have no problem telling this person to dump 750 hours into something with the hope of "getting noticed."
    - dpweb 6y ago
      People attend college and spend enormous money & time with no guarantees. The unpaid time spent is not throwaway. If I was 19 today - and wanted to code for the most $$$ possible. I wouldn't be in college. I'd be building up skills + know people. Know people even tougher I'd argue for technical people who are often introverts.
      - wongarsu 6y ago
        And being a reliable open-source contributor on projects people use can open doors that college could never open. From personal experience Open Source is also a great way to get to know people, especially if the project has an active IRC or Slack.
        maps7 6y ago
        I would love to contribute to open source but in 10+ years I've never found a project. Is there a good website that matches developers to projects?
        pc86 6y ago
        What projects have you used over the last 10 years?
        maps7 6y ago
        Probably a lot of utility ones but none that made me jump into the code
      - dennis_jeeves 6y ago
        >People attend college and spend enormous money & time with no guarantees. The unpaid time spent is not throwaway. It is throwaway for most people. 'Most' being >75%. Just my guesstimate. Well there is another way to look at it if you wish, if you want to bolster your self-esteem and confidence by having a college/university degree, then do it. My observation is that most people who do not have a degree suffer a life long I-do-not-have-a-degree self esteem syndrome, despite being just as capable as everyone else.

3pt14159 6y ago

I know many people that did this. Not all of them are making $500k a year, but here is some more examples: - Multiple Rails contributors, one that turned core. Those folks are making well north of $200k a year. - Ember contributors or contributors to projects around ember-data or similar. Multiple people making north of $200k a year. - A guy that dove into contributing to Postgres. He wouldn't even share how much his offer was because it was so insane. The point is that if you actually put in the work to projects and you network and learn from seasoned developers it's going to be far, far better for your career than grinding out little Fiver or Upwork contracts. Put another way: Your pay is related to your skills, your professionalism, and your network. Working on the right OS project exposes you to people that are really good at software. Sure you can do the same working for money at the right company, but this guy isn't in that position. So, in my opinion, his best bet is to skill up and network and contribute. Even if he's applying to remote work positions absent a network, a string of commits to Numpy or Rust is going to look a hell of a lot better than "freelancer that did rinky dink work for marketing guys" or "I built a todo list app to show off my skills" and I don't really see why this is so controversial. I'd like to see a counterpoint, honestly. Someone here that worked on a real OS project for a prolonged period of time that has trouble finding work at a reasonable salary.

synthc 6y ago
There is also tons of people that work on OS projects and get paid nothing. The ones that get paid a lot are the exception.
- derefr 6y ago
  I hypothesize that the people who get paid are the people who actually set out with the goal of getting paid. I really doubt there are many long-time FOSS contributors who want (as their top-level goal) to be paid to do FOSS, but still haven’t managed it after months/years of trying. Most people who do FOSS don’t do it with the goal of being paid for it. Just like most people who play a sport don’t do it with the goal of being paid for it. For most people, it’s either a hobby, or a byproduct of the efforts they go to in their day job (i.e. fixes to their company’s private fork of a FOSS project, that can then sometimes be upstreamed.)