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> In the book he describes the ways modern life has disconnected us from a lot of what humans find meaningful, and given that it's not surprising that rates of
by cousin_it 6y ago
> In the book he describes the ways modern life has disconnected us from a lot of what humans find meaningful, and given that it's not surprising that rates of depression and anxiety have skyrocketed.
Yeah. See Yvain's excellent review of "Empire of the Summer Moon":
All of the white people who joined Indian tribes loved it and refused to go back to white civilization. All the Indians who joined white civilization hated it and did everything they could to go back to their previous tribal lives.
There was much to like about tribal life. The men had no jobs except to occasionally hunt some buffalo and if they felt courageous to go to war. The women did have jobs like cooking and preparing buffalo, but they still seemed to be getting off easy compared to the white pioneer women or, for that matter, women today. The whole culture was nomadic, basically riding horses wherever they wanted through the vast open plains without any property or buildings or walls. And everyone was amazingly good at what they did; the Comanche men were probably the best archers and horsemen in the history of history, and even women and children had wilderness survival and tracking skills that put even the best white frontiersmen to shame. It sounds like a life of leisure, strong traditions, excellence, and enjoyment of nature, and it doesn't surprise me that people liked it better than the awful white frontier life of backbreaking farming and endless religious sermons.
Whites who met Comanches would almost universally rave about how imposing and noble and healthy and self-collected and alive they seemed; there aren't too many records of what the Comanches thought of white people, but the few there are suggest they basically viewed us as pathetic and stunted and defective.
https://www.gwern.net/docs/history/2012-11-13-yvain-bookreviewempireofthesummermoon.html https://www.gwern.net/docs/history/2012-11-13-yvain-bookrevi...
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- bergstromm466 6y agoWow what a life! So beautiful. It makes me yearn for a simpler life. Thank you for sharing this.
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- zdw 6y agoHaving an abundance of natural resources that are easily accessible at a low tech level seems like it's a very large precondition to making this work. Sounds like someone drank the "Noble savage" koolaid in writing that.
- banads 6y ago>Having an abundance of natural resources that are easily accessible at a low tech level seems like it's a very large precondition to making this work Disagree, "civilized" societies have vast surpluses of the resources needed for survival (Level 1 and 2 of Maslows Hierarchy) compared to tribal societies, although those resources may not be distributed properly -- which is indicative of that which we truly lack: community belongingness and love (Level 3 of Maslows Hierarchy).
- TheCoelacanth 6y ago"Civilized" societies don't have more natural resources available, they are just able to access a much, much higher portion of the available resources.
- banads 6y agoCivilized societies are definitely able to produce more food, and shelter at scale using industrial techniques.
- TheCoelacanth 6y agoFood and shelter aren't natural resources. They are things that you produce using natural resources. "Civilized" societies use far less land per person to produce food.
- chillwaves 6y agoUnless you are arguing that we do not have enough resources to produce the food/shelter required to live, not sure what your point is.
- SmallPeePeeMan 6y agoThere is a lot of fantasy in this. Traditional Native Americans had to deal with a lot of things we don’t: famine, drought, disease, rotten teeth. And depending on the tribe, war could be part of your culture and age-appropriate males could be expected to risk their lives very regularly. Ostracization was a death sentence: there was no space for LGBTQ or anyone significantly different than the norm. Do you know what they did for entertainment? Games similar to horseshoes. No books, no video, no computer, etc. Hunting is really hard when it’s 10 degrees outside with snow on the ground and your shoes are made of plain leather with no modern water proofing. I could go on but I’m tired of trying to convince you. Every culture has it’s pros and cons.
- mathieuh 6y agoIsn't this literally describing the noble savage? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage
- tikititaki 6y agoYep. I like this bit by Slavoj Zizek: https://youtu.be/IISMr5OMceg?t=407 https://youtu.be/IISMr5OMceg?t=407 This is just racism in a different form.
- HarryHirsch 6y agoThis is the Noble Savage. There's a grain of truth in there, though, hunter-gatherer societies in a resource-rich environment have plentiful access to a varied diet and are in excellent physical shape. But there is continuous war between neighbours over these resources (just because you can, everyone is well-fed and healthy). So, yes, people lived well and had fun while doing so.
- othoia 6y ago> there aren't too many records of what the Comanches thought of white people, but the few there are suggest they basically viewed us as pathetic and stunted and defective. How much worse then to have been completely defeated by such a race!