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What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start wor

by gpsx 6y ago

What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start working on this idea. (It has been looked into before.)

Zanni 6y ago
Battery swapping was an idea that made sense when battery tech wasn't as good and ranges weren't as great, but its window has passed. You might be thinking of Better Place, which actually launched a battery-swap station. It made sense (some) sense at the time to spend 5 minutes on a battery swap that would otherwise take 6 hours to charge for 111 miles of range. But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger.
- anoncareer0212 6y ago
  ...which is also why it's a bit frustrating to see people saying "Oh, this is from the perspective of gas guzzlers!"...no it isn't. this is a huge win, we're not trying to replace all infrastructure overnight, but it lowers the inconvenience of a marginal EV greatly...174mi in 20 min is damn good, that's 4 of my loooong commutes
  - zamfi 6y ago
    Only if they put in fast chargers, though. If they put in L2 (i.e., 8 hours for a full charge) chargers, it’s worse than useless.
- JoshTriplett 6y ago
  > But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger. That's still 20 minutes longer than it should take. And probably around 15 minutes longer than it takes to fill up with gas (which will give you twice the range). Speeding that up makes sense. (To be clear, I don't think it's reasonable to mandate swappable batteries, for instance; there's far too much innovation and potential innovation in battery technology for that. However, I think it's reasonable to experiment with that, and any other solution that will let it take less time to charge.)
joejerryronnie 6y ago
Maybe just swap cars. They can maintain a small inventory of fully charged EVs, just swap your depleted EV out and be on your way. Then your previous EV gets charged up for the next guy.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  and then ... "oh crap, left my (phone|charger|book|scarf|lipstick|pocket knife) in the other vehicle" ...
  - dorgo 6y ago
    is the sensor density in cars not high enough yet to detect and notify?
  - joejerryronnie 6y ago
    Oh I’m sure that would happen - and it would probably be the same 10% of people who leave 90% of the stuff behind.
eru 6y ago
Why would you make any of this mandatory? If people are willing to pay for this service, someone will be eager to make a buck and supply.
- probably_wrong 6y ago
  While I would usually agree with your line of thinking, I'm not sure it applies here as well. There is more money to be made in not providing the service and slowing down EV adoption, environment be damned. That makes it the perfect situation for the government to jump in and re-align those incentives.
  - eru 6y ago
    Just charge an carbon tax. That should give people the right incentives. (Including eg just drive your existing cars less. 50% reduction in driving existing cars is as good or better for the environment than eg 50% conversion to electric cars. But I don't expect the government to know what is better for the customer.)
- imtringued 6y ago
  This isn't just a matter of paying for a service because ICE cars will disappear in a few decades. Removing options before there are viable alternatives is bad policy. Good policy would make the migration from an old to a new technology as smooth as possible.

by gpsx 6y ago

Zanni 6y ago

Battery swapping was an idea that made sense when battery tech wasn't as good and ranges weren't as great, but its window has passed. You might be thinking of Better Place, which actually launched a battery-swap station. It made sense (some) sense at the time to spend 5 minutes on a battery swap that would otherwise take 6 hours to charge for 111 miles of range. But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger.

anoncareer0212 6y ago
...which is also why it's a bit frustrating to see people saying "Oh, this is from the perspective of gas guzzlers!"...no it isn't. this is a huge win, we're not trying to replace all infrastructure overnight, but it lowers the inconvenience of a marginal EV greatly...174mi in 20 min is damn good, that's 4 of my loooong commutes
- zamfi 6y ago
  Only if they put in fast chargers, though. If they put in L2 (i.e., 8 hours for a full charge) chargers, it’s worse than useless.
JoshTriplett 6y ago
> But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger. That's still 20 minutes longer than it should take. And probably around 15 minutes longer than it takes to fill up with gas (which will give you twice the range). Speeding that up makes sense. (To be clear, I don't think it's reasonable to mandate swappable batteries, for instance; there's far too much innovation and potential innovation in battery technology for that. However, I think it's reasonable to experiment with that, and any other solution that will let it take less time to charge.)

joejerryronnie 6y ago

Maybe just swap cars. They can maintain a small inventory of fully charged EVs, just swap your depleted EV out and be on your way. Then your previous EV gets charged up for the next guy.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
and then ... "oh crap, left my (phone|charger|book|scarf|lipstick|pocket knife) in the other vehicle" ...
- dorgo 6y ago
  is the sensor density in cars not high enough yet to detect and notify?
- joejerryronnie 6y ago
  Oh I’m sure that would happen - and it would probably be the same 10% of people who leave 90% of the stuff behind.

eru 6y ago

Why would you make any of this mandatory? If people are willing to pay for this service, someone will be eager to make a buck and supply.

probably_wrong 6y ago
While I would usually agree with your line of thinking, I'm not sure it applies here as well. There is more money to be made in not providing the service and slowing down EV adoption, environment be damned. That makes it the perfect situation for the government to jump in and re-align those incentives.
- eru 6y ago
  Just charge an carbon tax. That should give people the right incentives. (Including eg just drive your existing cars less. 50% reduction in driving existing cars is as good or better for the environment than eg 50% conversion to electric cars. But I don't expect the government to know what is better for the customer.)
imtringued 6y ago
This isn't just a matter of paying for a service because ICE cars will disappear in a few decades. Removing options before there are viable alternatives is bad policy. Good policy would make the migration from an old to a new technology as smooth as possible.