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You are totally correct, yet OP's point is still reasonable - this was written from the perspective of a petrol-car driver; moreover, it's a missed opportunity

You are totally correct, yet OP's point is still reasonable - this was written from the perspective of a petrol-car driver; moreover, it's a missed opportunity to think differently. Petrol stations require big tanks underground to store the petrol; we don't have pipelines through the city carrying petrol. On the other hand, we do have a massive network of wires carrying electricity. EV charging can so easily be distributed, that there is simply no need for 'petrol stations.' Put charging spots directly on the street and other parking places, with an app/API to show availability. Monitor demand, and add more in hotspots.

gpsx 6y ago
What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start working on this idea. (It has been looked into before.)
- Zanni 6y ago
  Battery swapping was an idea that made sense when battery tech wasn't as good and ranges weren't as great, but its window has passed. You might be thinking of Better Place, which actually launched a battery-swap station. It made sense (some) sense at the time to spend 5 minutes on a battery swap that would otherwise take 6 hours to charge for 111 miles of range. But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger.
  - anoncareer0212 6y ago
    ...which is also why it's a bit frustrating to see people saying "Oh, this is from the perspective of gas guzzlers!"...no it isn't. this is a huge win, we're not trying to replace all infrastructure overnight, but it lowers the inconvenience of a marginal EV greatly...174mi in 20 min is damn good, that's 4 of my loooong commutes
    - zamfi 6y ago
      Only if they put in fast chargers, though. If they put in L2 (i.e., 8 hours for a full charge) chargers, it’s worse than useless.
  - JoshTriplett 6y ago
    > But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger. That's still 20 minutes longer than it should take. And probably around 15 minutes longer than it takes to fill up with gas (which will give you twice the range). Speeding that up makes sense. (To be clear, I don't think it's reasonable to mandate swappable batteries, for instance; there's far too much innovation and potential innovation in battery technology for that. However, I think it's reasonable to experiment with that, and any other solution that will let it take less time to charge.)
- joejerryronnie 6y ago
  Maybe just swap cars. They can maintain a small inventory of fully charged EVs, just swap your depleted EV out and be on your way. Then your previous EV gets charged up for the next guy.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    and then ... "oh crap, left my (phone|charger|book|scarf|lipstick|pocket knife) in the other vehicle" ...
    - dorgo 6y ago
      is the sensor density in cars not high enough yet to detect and notify?
    - joejerryronnie 6y ago
      Oh I’m sure that would happen - and it would probably be the same 10% of people who leave 90% of the stuff behind.
- eru 6y ago
  Why would you make any of this mandatory? If people are willing to pay for this service, someone will be eager to make a buck and supply.
  - probably_wrong 6y ago
    While I would usually agree with your line of thinking, I'm not sure it applies here as well. There is more money to be made in not providing the service and slowing down EV adoption, environment be damned. That makes it the perfect situation for the government to jump in and re-align those incentives.
    - eru 6y ago
      Just charge an carbon tax. That should give people the right incentives. (Including eg just drive your existing cars less. 50% reduction in driving existing cars is as good or better for the environment than eg 50% conversion to electric cars. But I don't expect the government to know what is better for the customer.)
  - imtringued 6y ago
    This isn't just a matter of paying for a service because ICE cars will disappear in a few decades. Removing options before there are viable alternatives is bad policy. Good policy would make the migration from an old to a new technology as smooth as possible.
HaloZero 6y ago
That would require significant more infrastructure in public spaces. Requiring petrol stations is a good first step to break the barrier that combines private/public work. (I'm assuming petrol stations are private enterprises in Germany on this point)
- huonpine 6y ago
  Would it? My local city has electric parking meters, is it hard to add a cable to that?
  - mbrameld 6y ago
    I imagine the wiring to the meters is designed to carry the current necessary to run an electric parking meter and wouldn't hold up to the current required to charge an EV.
  - eigenvector 6y ago
    Yes, because an electric parking meter uses only a few watts of electricity and may not even be connected to the grid (the most common ones I've seen just have a tiny solar panel). A electric vehicle charger may use 200 kW and require its own dedicated transformer. A fast charger is a fairly substantial cabinet. Now you're jackhammering the sidewalk to bring an underground electrical service to that spot.
    - huonpine 6y ago
      Can you apply your thinking to petrol stations. We build floating city's to extract oil thousands of meters down. Is running some cables harder then that?
      - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        An off shore oil well will basically extract black gold, paying for themselves in no time(at least when the oil barrel price was high). Electrical charging station on the sidewalk not so much.
rorykoehler 6y ago
Don't worry we will line the streets with charge points too

gpsx 6y ago

What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start working on this idea. (It has been looked into before.)

Zanni 6y ago
Battery swapping was an idea that made sense when battery tech wasn't as good and ranges weren't as great, but its window has passed. You might be thinking of Better Place, which actually launched a battery-swap station. It made sense (some) sense at the time to spend 5 minutes on a battery swap that would otherwise take 6 hours to charge for 111 miles of range. But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger.
- anoncareer0212 6y ago
  ...which is also why it's a bit frustrating to see people saying "Oh, this is from the perspective of gas guzzlers!"...no it isn't. this is a huge win, we're not trying to replace all infrastructure overnight, but it lowers the inconvenience of a marginal EV greatly...174mi in 20 min is damn good, that's 4 of my loooong commutes
  - zamfi 6y ago
    Only if they put in fast chargers, though. If they put in L2 (i.e., 8 hours for a full charge) chargers, it’s worse than useless.
- JoshTriplett 6y ago
  > But today, right now, you can spend 20 minutes to get 174 miles of range at a supercharger. That's still 20 minutes longer than it should take. And probably around 15 minutes longer than it takes to fill up with gas (which will give you twice the range). Speeding that up makes sense. (To be clear, I don't think it's reasonable to mandate swappable batteries, for instance; there's far too much innovation and potential innovation in battery technology for that. However, I think it's reasonable to experiment with that, and any other solution that will let it take less time to charge.)
joejerryronnie 6y ago
Maybe just swap cars. They can maintain a small inventory of fully charged EVs, just swap your depleted EV out and be on your way. Then your previous EV gets charged up for the next guy.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  and then ... "oh crap, left my (phone|charger|book|scarf|lipstick|pocket knife) in the other vehicle" ...
  - dorgo 6y ago
    is the sensor density in cars not high enough yet to detect and notify?
  - joejerryronnie 6y ago
    Oh I’m sure that would happen - and it would probably be the same 10% of people who leave 90% of the stuff behind.
eru 6y ago
Why would you make any of this mandatory? If people are willing to pay for this service, someone will be eager to make a buck and supply.
- probably_wrong 6y ago
  While I would usually agree with your line of thinking, I'm not sure it applies here as well. There is more money to be made in not providing the service and slowing down EV adoption, environment be damned. That makes it the perfect situation for the government to jump in and re-align those incentives.
  - eru 6y ago
    Just charge an carbon tax. That should give people the right incentives. (Including eg just drive your existing cars less. 50% reduction in driving existing cars is as good or better for the environment than eg 50% conversion to electric cars. But I don't expect the government to know what is better for the customer.)
- imtringued 6y ago
  This isn't just a matter of paying for a service because ICE cars will disappear in a few decades. Removing options before there are viable alternatives is bad policy. Good policy would make the migration from an old to a new technology as smooth as possible.

HaloZero 6y ago

That would require significant more infrastructure in public spaces. Requiring petrol stations is a good first step to break the barrier that combines private/public work. (I'm assuming petrol stations are private enterprises in Germany on this point)

huonpine 6y ago
Would it? My local city has electric parking meters, is it hard to add a cable to that?
- mbrameld 6y ago
  I imagine the wiring to the meters is designed to carry the current necessary to run an electric parking meter and wouldn't hold up to the current required to charge an EV.
- eigenvector 6y ago
  Yes, because an electric parking meter uses only a few watts of electricity and may not even be connected to the grid (the most common ones I've seen just have a tiny solar panel). A electric vehicle charger may use 200 kW and require its own dedicated transformer. A fast charger is a fairly substantial cabinet. Now you're jackhammering the sidewalk to bring an underground electrical service to that spot.
  - huonpine 6y ago
    Can you apply your thinking to petrol stations. We build floating city's to extract oil thousands of meters down. Is running some cables harder then that?
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      An off shore oil well will basically extract black gold, paying for themselves in no time(at least when the oil barrel price was high). Electrical charging station on the sidewalk not so much.

rorykoehler 6y ago

Don't worry we will line the streets with charge points too