5 ms·

Why is the head of the police not a sheriff? Someone who is elected? Better question: Was it ever a sheriff? Seems like elected sheriff's work well in a local

Why is the head of the police not a sheriff? Someone who is elected? Better question: Was it ever a sheriff? Seems like elected sheriff's work well in a local community assuming high voter participation. Very high profile position. I'm from the tropics so I understand that elections can be rigged (see DR 1994). Would love to hear if this worked or failed in the states.

JohnTHaller 6y ago
Sheriffs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kak7kAdNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kak7kAdNw
currymj 6y ago
tons of elected sheriffs in the US, usually at the county rather than the city level. for example in the rest of New York State outside of the city, there are elected sheriffs. but there may also be police departments associated with towns or cities. like so much of US government it's a complicated federalist mess. i don't know how it works on average but there are a few high-profile cases of elected sheriffs seriously abusing their office. Joe Arpaio is the most famous. he had a strong base of support from people in the county, and wasn't afraid to use the powers of his office to target political opponents, which let him stay in power for many years.
- uoaei 6y ago
  Setting it up so elected officials operate at the county level sets up a level of disconnect between the sheriff and the population that cancels out the accountability that elected office supposedly abides by.
  - sciurus 6y ago
    Why?
downerending 6y ago
Things in NY can be very strange. If you've ever wondered why the Tappan Zee bridge is where it is, well, it mostly has to do with which of the bickering bureaucracies would be allowed to collect the tolls. Something like that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tappan_Zee_Bridge_(1955%E2%80%932017)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tappan_Zee_Bridge_(1955%E2%80%...
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> Why is the head of the police not a sheriff? Someone who is elected? Do we have evidence elected sheriffs are more humane than appointed ones? (Honest question.)
- habosa 6y ago
  If they're like other elected officials I would expect it to be much worse. I reallllly don't want to know how a sheriff gets noticed.
- soganess 6y ago
  Perhaps, but isn't that akin to saying "Do you have any real evidence that social inequality is lower under an elected president vs a papal appointed monarch?"
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I don't think so. The police commissioner serves at the pleasure of the mayor, and the mayor is democratically accountable, so the commissioner is unlikely to last long if the public really wants him gone.
- quinoa 6y ago
  Elected Sheriffs anecdotally seem to be at higher odds of being charged with corruption and are often focused on politicking rather than policing. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/us/ana-franklin-alabama-sheriff.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/us/ana-franklin-alabama-s... 2. https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/commentary/commentary-reforms-can-help-stop-sheriff-corruption-in-south-carolina/article_391cb9e8-630e-11ea-b32f-a3fd8283a39b.html https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/commentary/commentary... 3. https://apnews.com/afa9172c457725c92dcb39aca9c85a49 https://apnews.com/afa9172c457725c92dcb39aca9c85a49 The issue may also be exacerbated if the electorate is actively okay or willing to ignore the corruption. I believe the increasing political nature of the position is, in fact, part of the issue. The influence of politics through Mayors and the Police Unions makes running a department efficiently and effectively an impossible task if you want to hold onto your job. A chief of police either spend all of their time appeasing politicians by implementing their ideas for how to police effectively or are replaced by someone who will. At the same time they are receiving constant push-back from the Police Union. Never mind the years of experience, training, and graduate degree work almost all police chiefs have endured; they either do what politicians think they should do or are replaced. If they lose the confidence of the Union the Union will sabotage them and they will be replaced. The second major issue, as I see it, is how we select and hire police officers, which still, almost universally, relies on the polygraph test. The polygraph is proven pseudoscience, but the actually effectiveness, I suspect, is irrelevant because the goal is to see if prospective hires can take the pressure of the test; not to detect dishonesty. You either get perfect applicants, or those who are okay and comfortable with lying. There are many more issues, of course: the increasing militarization, some departments actively rejecting high IQ candidates, low pay and long working hours for patrol, etc.

JohnTHaller 6y ago

Sheriffs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kak7kAdNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kak7kAdNw

currymj 6y ago

tons of elected sheriffs in the US, usually at the county rather than the city level. for example in the rest of New York State outside of the city, there are elected sheriffs. but there may also be police departments associated with towns or cities. like so much of US government it's a complicated federalist mess. i don't know how it works on average but there are a few high-profile cases of elected sheriffs seriously abusing their office. Joe Arpaio is the most famous. he had a strong base of support from people in the county, and wasn't afraid to use the powers of his office to target political opponents, which let him stay in power for many years.

uoaei 6y ago
Setting it up so elected officials operate at the county level sets up a level of disconnect between the sheriff and the population that cancels out the accountability that elected office supposedly abides by.
- sciurus 6y ago
  Why?

downerending 6y ago

Things in NY can be very strange. If you've ever wondered why the Tappan Zee bridge is where it is, well, it mostly has to do with which of the bickering bureaucracies would be allowed to collect the tolls. Something like that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tappan_Zee_Bridge_(1955%E2%80%932017)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tappan_Zee_Bridge_(1955%E2%80%...

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> Why is the head of the police not a sheriff? Someone who is elected? Do we have evidence elected sheriffs are more humane than appointed ones? (Honest question.)

habosa 6y ago
If they're like other elected officials I would expect it to be much worse. I reallllly don't want to know how a sheriff gets noticed.
soganess 6y ago
Perhaps, but isn't that akin to saying "Do you have any real evidence that social inequality is lower under an elected president vs a papal appointed monarch?"
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I don't think so. The police commissioner serves at the pleasure of the mayor, and the mayor is democratically accountable, so the commissioner is unlikely to last long if the public really wants him gone.
quinoa 6y ago
Elected Sheriffs anecdotally seem to be at higher odds of being charged with corruption and are often focused on politicking rather than policing. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/us/ana-franklin-alabama-sheriff.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/us/ana-franklin-alabama-s... 2. https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/commentary/commentary-reforms-can-help-stop-sheriff-corruption-in-south-carolina/article_391cb9e8-630e-11ea-b32f-a3fd8283a39b.html https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/commentary/commentary... 3. https://apnews.com/afa9172c457725c92dcb39aca9c85a49 https://apnews.com/afa9172c457725c92dcb39aca9c85a49 The issue may also be exacerbated if the electorate is actively okay or willing to ignore the corruption. I believe the increasing political nature of the position is, in fact, part of the issue. The influence of politics through Mayors and the Police Unions makes running a department efficiently and effectively an impossible task if you want to hold onto your job. A chief of police either spend all of their time appeasing politicians by implementing their ideas for how to police effectively or are replaced by someone who will. At the same time they are receiving constant push-back from the Police Union. Never mind the years of experience, training, and graduate degree work almost all police chiefs have endured; they either do what politicians think they should do or are replaced. If they lose the confidence of the Union the Union will sabotage them and they will be replaced. The second major issue, as I see it, is how we select and hire police officers, which still, almost universally, relies on the polygraph test. The polygraph is proven pseudoscience, but the actually effectiveness, I suspect, is irrelevant because the goal is to see if prospective hires can take the pressure of the test; not to detect dishonesty. You either get perfect applicants, or those who are okay and comfortable with lying. There are many more issues, of course: the increasing militarization, some departments actively rejecting high IQ candidates, low pay and long working hours for patrol, etc.