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Why Is the NYPD So Powerful?
- noad 6y agoIt seems like pushing through massive budget cuts and busting up police unions is the next logical step. I understand this is easier said than done, but the sooner we get started on actually fighting this fight the easier it will be to get through.
- Natsu 6y agoThere's a lot of bad blood between the NYPD and the mayor now, given that the NYPD arrested de Blasio's daughter and then posted Chiara's arrest report - https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/nypd-sergeants-union-tweets-out-chiara-de-blasios-arrest-report/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/nypd-sergeants-union-tweets-ou...
- sremani 6y agoNYPD and the Mayor were duking even before this, and NYPD have turned their back to Mayor at the Police funeral. The stakes might have gone higher, but the bad blood was there at least few years old.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoI'm getting tired of the union rep who always comes out and throws gasoline around over their non-stop political fight with the mayor. He never has anything constructive to say. There is a real problem when the second largest police force on the planet can't get its employees to stand up and do the job they signed up for. Strategically abandoning their duty so as to win political points is a disgrace.
- thephyber 6y ago> I'm getting tired of the union rep who always comes out and throws gasoline around over I'm starting to think this is actually a well crafted strategy for union leaders to go out in the middle of a killing where an officer might be in the wrong where they start throwing insults and muddy the water.
- DenseComet 6y agoCould you help me understand a little more about the situation in NYC? From an outsiders perspective, it seems that de Blasio supports the police department, but at the same time, they arrested his daughter and tweeted details. I'm kinda just curious about whats actually happening.
- MattGaiser 6y agoTrying that on teacher unions failed and police are more trusted and more respected than teachers/schools. https://news.gallup.com/poll/274673/nurses-continue-rate-highest-honesty-ethics.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/274673/nurses-continue-rate-hig... https://news.gallup.com/poll/236243/military-small-business-police-stir-confidence.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/236243/military-small-business-...
- freshhawk 6y agoThat isn't a good comparison, police unions have mostly different support systems and allies than other unions. Police unions are not generally helped by other unions to put it mildly. Also, enough public support exists for both sides to try and act so which one has more "public trust" doesn't matter at all, it's about exerting power now.
- jadell 6y agoTeachers' unions don't even have the power to get budgets big enough for teachers to not have to buy their own school supplies for students. Talk to me when police unions are weak enough that we can cut police department budgets back so much that police have to buy their own bullets and riot gear.
- VWWHFSfQ 6y agoPreventing police officers from collective bargaining will not solve any problems and could actually make things worse.
- PKop 6y agoThink of all the money, real estate wealth, media presence and power that exists in NYC. This is why. NYPD can operate with impunity, because they know they will not be exposed by local media and will be backed up by the financial power they are protecting. Contrast this with any other city, whose police force may have unfortunate levels of systemic cover and approval, but nothing even close to NYPD. Additionally to all of that, the militarization of police forces that many seem to be aware of nationally, seems to have occurred with NYPD as much as any other force [0][1] (9/11 being the obvious reason). So they are extremely well funded, well supported, and "well" (over) trained as far as tactics and methods. There's also documented, but controversial [2] examples of some of this wealth and power mixing with ethnic conflict, that have resulted in shameful racist abuses of... well it isn't even police, but a sort of "private" force that a lot of people don't know about which has surprising amounts of funding and power. Fact that something like this even exists with limited coverage in media given the abuses is pretty surprising. [0] https://fpif.org/why-we-should-be-alarmed-that-israeli-forces-and-u-s-police-are-training-together/ https://fpif.org/why-we-should-be-alarmed-that-israeli-force... [1] https://documentedny.com/2018/09/12/report-criticizes-nypd-collaboration-with-israel/ https://documentedny.com/2018/09/12/report-criticizes-nypd-c... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/18/nyregion/brooklyns-private-jewish-patrols-wield-power-some-call-them-bullies.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/18/nyregion/brooklyns-privat...
- bsanr2 6y agoIt should be noted that none of the men involved in the shomrim beating of the black man (he also happened to be gay and an artist, and lost one of his eyes in the attack), mentioned in the article, ultimately served out any sort of prison sentence for their roles. All of them got off on technicalities in appeals, and no one seems interested in justice for the man whose life and livelihood were threatened.
- pnw_hazor 6y agoOne person's legal technicality is another person's constitutional right.
- MattGaiser 6y agoNYPD polls well. Granted, these are a bit old and things could have changed, but people are generally happy with them in New York. https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/03/13/poll-shows-broad-support-for-nypd-surveillance-of-muslims/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/03/13/poll-shows-broad-sup... https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/07/16/yelp-for-cops https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/07/16/yelp-for-cops https://www.washingtonpost.com/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/ In general in America, police are very trusted and even in years with significant issues, that trust did not sharply decline: https://news.gallup.com/poll/213869/confidence-police-back-historical-average.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/213869/confidence-police-back-h... https://news.gallup.com/poll/236243/military-small-business-police-stir-confidence.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/236243/military-small-business-... Even a recent poll (two days old) had trust in police to be quite high: https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/axios-ipsos-coronavirus-index https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/axios-ipsos-coronavir... As an institution, they are one of the most trusted in America: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/confidence-institutions.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/confidence-institutions.as...
- kryogen1c 6y ago> NYPD polls well. oh its more extreme than that. a majority of people support actual military augmentation for the police during these riots https://assets.morningconsult.com/wp-uploads/2020/06/01181629/2005131_crosstabs_POLICE_RVs_FINAL_LM-1.pdf https://assets.morningconsult.com/wp-uploads/2020/06/0118162...
- MattGaiser 6y agoWhen I initially read your comment, I assumed that it conflated the military and the national guard. Nope. That was a separate (and even better supported) question.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> its more extreme than that If you're trying to convince a majority to change its views, labelling them as "extreme" is unhelpful. Many New Yorkers are within living memory of the Cold War-era crime peaks that almost destroyed our city. 9/11 and the Boston Bombing normalized a more-militarized police, as well as the NYPD building up an intelligence agency that rivals some countries'. Looting isn't terrorism. And we have had zero mass violence from protesters. But there are good reasons for an island as dense as Manhattan to be hyper-sensitive to incipient lawlessness. (There are also bad ones.)
- mucholove 6y agoWhy is the head of the police not a sheriff? Someone who is elected? Better question: Was it ever a sheriff? Seems like elected sheriff's work well in a local community assuming high voter participation. Very high profile position. I'm from the tropics so I understand that elections can be rigged (see DR 1994). Would love to hear if this worked or failed in the states.
- JohnTHaller 6y agoSheriffs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kak7kAdNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kak7kAdNw
- currymj 6y agotons of elected sheriffs in the US, usually at the county rather than the city level. for example in the rest of New York State outside of the city, there are elected sheriffs. but there may also be police departments associated with towns or cities. like so much of US government it's a complicated federalist mess. i don't know how it works on average but there are a few high-profile cases of elected sheriffs seriously abusing their office. Joe Arpaio is the most famous. he had a strong base of support from people in the county, and wasn't afraid to use the powers of his office to target political opponents, which let him stay in power for many years.
- downerending 6y agoThings in NY can be very strange. If you've ever wondered why the Tappan Zee bridge is where it is, well, it mostly has to do with which of the bickering bureaucracies would be allowed to collect the tolls. Something like that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tappan_Zee_Bridge_(1955%E2%80%932017)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tappan_Zee_Bridge_(1955%E2%80%...
- jojobas 6y agoThe main motif of the article is that the cops had nothing to do with lowering crime under Giuliani and that their apparent withdrawal after many years of tough policing didn't cause any resurgence. I'd say standard of proof is rather low either way.
- atombender 6y agoGuiliani's crackdown on crime coincideded with a nationwide drop in crime in the 1990s, in cities that didn't implement the same tough "broken window" policies as NYC. Between 1991 and 2000, homicide rates fell from 9.8 to about 5.5 per 100k people, which is a drop of 44%. There were probably multiple overlapping causes [1], but the most compelling explanation so far is the removal of lead from gasoline in the 1970/80s [2]. [1] https://www.vox.com/2015/2/13/8032231/crime-drop https://www.vox.com/2015/2/13/8032231/crime-drop [2] https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-le...
- downerending 6y agoHaving lived in NYC, I'm amazed at the level of restraint they've been showing over the last two weeks. They're taking a vicious beating and really pretty much holding fire. Not sure I agree with that strategy, but you have to respect their discipline. Wild horses couldn't get me to do that job.
- InspiredIdiot 6y agohttps://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/careers/police-officers/po-benefits.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/careers/police-officers/po-be... https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/careers/police-officers/po-hiring.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/careers/police-officers/po-hi...
- InspiredIdiot 6y agoTo clarify, this is in response to "Wild horses couldn't get me to do that job." It is no mystery. Joining a police force is a powerful tool of upward mobility in a country (ours) where pretty much all the others have been lost. I would hope that the people enjoying those advantages (possibly deserved but evidently rare) would want to preserve them. Sometimes that might result in the restraint you note. Other times the results might be quite different.
- ripley12 6y ago> It’s the marriage of Wall Street, real estate capital, and urban planning, with politicians—self-described progressives and moderates alike—religiously supporting tax giveaways and favorable zoning policies for the for-profit developers of real estate. I don't find this analysis - which ignores the low[1] rate of housing construction in NYC and the political role of homeowners wrt zoning and property values - remotely convincing. [1] https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/03/26/new-york-is-shrinking/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/03/26/new-york-is-sh...
- snicker7 6y agoLow supply for housing increases prices, which is what landlords and real estate investors want.
- burger_moon 6y ago> Arrests and summonses plummeted in early 2015. This, in labor and political parlance, is called a slowdown. Why doesn't this lead to shrinking budgets and layoffs of police? Aren't they providing a data backed solution to reducing the cities budget?
- esyir 6y agoIsn't this analogous to cutting IT budget when there's no problems?
- nitwit005 6y agoThe police union is powerful, but so are several other public sector unions in the city. I don't see any reason to create a special theory for the police only. I guarantee you the mayor will defend the teachers union from criticism as well.
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- runawaybottle 6y agoSuccess has given them a lot of leeway. One cannot deny NYC is a good safe city. Every borough is safe mostly, other than parts of the Bronx.