4 ms·

Does anyone understand the security model of mail-in-ballots or have a good article about it? This article suggests there is some security-through-obscurity wi

Does anyone understand the security model of mail-in-ballots or have a good article about it? This article suggests there is some security-through-obscurity with each county having its own ballot version, changed each election year. They also mention matching voter registrations and signatures, but doesn't this defeat the principle of anonymous voting by putting your signature and name in the same envelope as your vote?

ViViDboarder 6y ago
When I’ve voted by mail, the signature is on the outside of the envelope so that it can be validated before they remove the contents. I assume that after validation the contents go in a big stack to be counted just like other ballots.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ilikehurdles 6y ago
  Additionally, there is a tear-off strip with a barcode that you hold on to, which allows you to follow up on the status of your ballot online.
- takeda 6y ago
  The ballot also has an unique ID, perhaps is not tied to your name, but there is nothing that would prevent that. The ID is known when it is marked to you.
stillbourne 6y ago
I was listening to my local NPR station when I heard a news story about how Colorado secures their elections: https://www.cpr.org/2018/10/25/colorado-is-a-pretty-darn-safe-place-to-cast-a-ballot-this-is-how-we-got-here/ https://www.cpr.org/2018/10/25/colorado-is-a-pretty-darn-saf...
fuzzy2 6y ago
In Germany, you have two envelopes, outer and inner. The inner envelope contains your anonymous voting slip. I think it’s basically the same one you get when voting in person. (Haven’t been there for a long time.) It’s what goes into the voting box. The outer envelope contains the sealed (invalid otherwise) inner envelope and an affidavit where you declare that the vote was your own blah blah. This also doubles as your voting registration (dunno how to precisely translate it, it’s a paper your receive that allows you to vote wherever or via mail). So the security is that it’s perjury if you’re not voting properly. The anonymity is because the inner envelope is only opened when counting. The outer envelope is gone by then.
- cstuder 6y ago
  Switzerland has the exact same system. It used to be that you signed the inner envelope, but it changed a couple of years ago in order decrease the likelihood to link your signature to your vote.
- andrepd 6y ago
  This is how I voted at the Portuguese consulate while abroad.
- rayiner 6y ago
  This would be fine in America. But that’s not what we’d do. Instead, someone would file a lawsuit to count the “invalid” envelopes that were discarded because the outer envelope wasn’t sealed properly. And they’d do it only in Democratic-leaning counties, where the Democrat could expect to get more votes from counting the invalid envelopes than the Republican. (This is, in fact, almost exactly the trick Gore tried to pull in 2000, except it was counting invalid paper ballots only in counties that had gone in his favor.)
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  If I'm understanding correctly, that's more or less the same systems that's used in California.
takeda 6y ago
In Los Angeles at least, mail in voting aren't truly anonymous. Your ID is in the ballot and you have to provide your signature when mailing it, which is then verified with the records. So I have to trust that the ID is only used for verification only.

ViViDboarder 6y ago

When I’ve voted by mail, the signature is on the outside of the envelope so that it can be validated before they remove the contents. I assume that after validation the contents go in a big stack to be counted just like other ballots.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ilikehurdles 6y ago
Additionally, there is a tear-off strip with a barcode that you hold on to, which allows you to follow up on the status of your ballot online.
takeda 6y ago
The ballot also has an unique ID, perhaps is not tied to your name, but there is nothing that would prevent that. The ID is known when it is marked to you.

stillbourne 6y ago

I was listening to my local NPR station when I heard a news story about how Colorado secures their elections: https://www.cpr.org/2018/10/25/colorado-is-a-pretty-darn-safe-place-to-cast-a-ballot-this-is-how-we-got-here/ https://www.cpr.org/2018/10/25/colorado-is-a-pretty-darn-saf...

fuzzy2 6y ago

In Germany, you have two envelopes, outer and inner. The inner envelope contains your anonymous voting slip. I think it’s basically the same one you get when voting in person. (Haven’t been there for a long time.) It’s what goes into the voting box. The outer envelope contains the sealed (invalid otherwise) inner envelope and an affidavit where you declare that the vote was your own blah blah. This also doubles as your voting registration (dunno how to precisely translate it, it’s a paper your receive that allows you to vote wherever or via mail). So the security is that it’s perjury if you’re not voting properly. The anonymity is because the inner envelope is only opened when counting. The outer envelope is gone by then.

cstuder 6y ago
Switzerland has the exact same system. It used to be that you signed the inner envelope, but it changed a couple of years ago in order decrease the likelihood to link your signature to your vote.
andrepd 6y ago
This is how I voted at the Portuguese consulate while abroad.
rayiner 6y ago
This would be fine in America. But that’s not what we’d do. Instead, someone would file a lawsuit to count the “invalid” envelopes that were discarded because the outer envelope wasn’t sealed properly. And they’d do it only in Democratic-leaning counties, where the Democrat could expect to get more votes from counting the invalid envelopes than the Republican. (This is, in fact, almost exactly the trick Gore tried to pull in 2000, except it was counting invalid paper ballots only in counties that had gone in his favor.)
0xffff2 6y ago
If I'm understanding correctly, that's more or less the same systems that's used in California.

takeda 6y ago

In Los Angeles at least, mail in voting aren't truly anonymous. Your ID is in the ballot and you have to provide your signature when mailing it, which is then verified with the records. So I have to trust that the ID is only used for verification only.