4 ms·

I don't disagree, but it's important to remember that when rent control is proposed, it's because some people are very desperate. It would behoove us to suggest

I don't disagree, but it's important to remember that when rent control is proposed, it's because some people are very desperate. It would behoove us to suggest viable alternatives every time it's proposed and we shoot it down.

quickthrower2 6y ago
The government could build affordable housing and rent it out at a reasonable price. "Council houses" as they are called in the UK are built very well. They are often ugly, but I'm sure that these days they can be built well, cheaply and made to look OK.
- stass 6y ago
  The government could start by removing hurdles to build. The amount of hassle one has to go through in California in order to build housing is staggering.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  The vast majority of council houses in the U.K. are owned by private landlords who rent to the council. No one wants to live in Social housing projects in the U.K. and for a good reason they are all rubbish, the U.K. has had some of the worst designed and built social blocks in the world many of them were demolished within 1-2 decades. Stuffing poor people into high density housing is a horrible idea every study shows that spreading them out is not only cheaper but also much more beneficial to them.
  - quickthrower2 6y ago
    Counterpoints: 1. Not all social housing is high rise or high density. Look outside of the cities for example - new towns. Lessons can be learned this time. 2. Much of the social housing was sold off in the 80's I think, the trick is to keep government ownership of it, not sell it for a pittance and let private landlords profit from price increases.
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      Outside of the cities these are still high density, just instead of a 30 stories block those are 3-4 stories blocks in the burbs. Concentrating poor and vulnerable people isn't a good strategy they do better when they are surrounded by the better off, having 2 low income families on a street would produce a much better outcome and shoving 200 of them. Social housing in the UK is complex, at some point nearly 80% of the people lived in social housing, it wasn't for low income families but rather for nearly anyone but the most affluent which often held titles and on the other spectrum the most remote and rural communities. Social housing was seen as a means to bring workers into the cities during the industrialization of the UK. Today despite the fact that anyone is still eligible outside of political corruption which ironically nearly exclusively plagues Labour councillors, MP's and party officials which somehow jump to the front of the queue despite earning well above the mean council housing is seen as a solution for the working poor. Councils already offer rent assistance, have council properties which are used to temporary house vulnerable people, building more of those won't help just look what happens when you have council flats in new build projects, drugs, anti social behaviour and damage to properties simply due to the high concentration of these individuals. So while having 20-30% social flats in a new build project might seem like a good idea the only thing that it causes is a huge backlash from the regular tenants due to this behaviour and nearly always they end up winning.
- wishinghand 6y ago
  When I visited a friend in England I accidentally stayed at a council estate that someone put up on AirBNB illegally. While it wasn't a slum, it definitely wasn't "just OK". I suspect the reason why that particular unit didn't look like a slum is because the owners were renting it out and doing their best to keep it nice. Not a single bit of that place was built well. Maybe it was cheap. Looked OK from the outside but inside it was like some background location for a movie that's about to experience an apocalypse.
  - quickthrower2 6y ago
    What was specifically wrong? Structural issues or cosmetic. A private house from 1960 that hasn't been renovated since, unless carefully maintained will also look shit on the inside. Look at property that is auctioned in the UK, for example.
    - wishinghand 6y ago
      I got the impression that council estates are newer than that. However, the floors in the general areas (stairs, lobby, halls) were not cared for. The portal from the hall to the unit had a weird, rough tear in the floor right along the door jamb. I noticed once I crossed it that the unit was a half centimeter lower than the hallway. The fixtures (lights, plumbing, switches) were absolute penny quality. Very little hot water (which seemed dire since tea is so popular). The bathtub was on top of a cabinet, which I thought was really weird and unsafe. It didn't seem like an aftermarket thing- it looked like the tub was built like that. 0/10 would not use AirBNB again. Sleep on a friend's couch or floor, or shell out the money for a hotel. Or use a hostel if money is tight.
  - paulcole 6y ago
    You chose to book a room using a service that’s known for a near complete lack of ethics. Oopsy!
    - wishinghand 6y ago
      It was a huge oopsy. I haven't booked through them again.
- thephyber 6y ago
  There are a number of "housing projects" in the US that turned into rampant crime nests. US politicians are largely wary of such projects right now.
TuringNYC 6y ago
After my father died, my mother rented out the lower floor of her home. I think your definition of desperate is unfair it it includes only tenants. Not all "landlords" are taking on the headache of renting out units because they are professional landlords -- many are similarly disparate, have mortgage payments, property tax, repairs, utilities, etc. I'd be in more favor of rent control if it would also freeze property taxes, electrician bills, utility costs. It is turtles all the day down.
- thephyber 6y ago
  Yeah, lots of the problems with rent control are related to it being an unfair disadvantage to some (usually not all) landlords and they have expenses as well. But again: the reason rent control is passed is because enough people with significant political leverage were hurting. We need to be able to show them a better alternative if we don't want the pain of rent control's (un?)intended consequences to linger.
  - zhoujianfu 6y ago
    The alternative is allowing more housing development.
    - electricviolet 6y ago
      The real alternative is more housing development plus treating housing as a social good rather than an investment, but that's a long-term goal, it's not gonna happen overnight.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  Most places with rent control also have similar limits on property tax increases. In fact, I think most places have limits on property tax increases because property taxes are largely just some number pulled out of the ass of some bureaucrat. Utilities across the US also have regulated rates.

quickthrower2 6y ago

The government could build affordable housing and rent it out at a reasonable price. "Council houses" as they are called in the UK are built very well. They are often ugly, but I'm sure that these days they can be built well, cheaply and made to look OK.

stass 6y ago
The government could start by removing hurdles to build. The amount of hassle one has to go through in California in order to build housing is staggering.
dogma1138 6y ago
The vast majority of council houses in the U.K. are owned by private landlords who rent to the council. No one wants to live in Social housing projects in the U.K. and for a good reason they are all rubbish, the U.K. has had some of the worst designed and built social blocks in the world many of them were demolished within 1-2 decades. Stuffing poor people into high density housing is a horrible idea every study shows that spreading them out is not only cheaper but also much more beneficial to them.
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  Counterpoints: 1. Not all social housing is high rise or high density. Look outside of the cities for example - new towns. Lessons can be learned this time. 2. Much of the social housing was sold off in the 80's I think, the trick is to keep government ownership of it, not sell it for a pittance and let private landlords profit from price increases.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    Outside of the cities these are still high density, just instead of a 30 stories block those are 3-4 stories blocks in the burbs. Concentrating poor and vulnerable people isn't a good strategy they do better when they are surrounded by the better off, having 2 low income families on a street would produce a much better outcome and shoving 200 of them. Social housing in the UK is complex, at some point nearly 80% of the people lived in social housing, it wasn't for low income families but rather for nearly anyone but the most affluent which often held titles and on the other spectrum the most remote and rural communities. Social housing was seen as a means to bring workers into the cities during the industrialization of the UK. Today despite the fact that anyone is still eligible outside of political corruption which ironically nearly exclusively plagues Labour councillors, MP's and party officials which somehow jump to the front of the queue despite earning well above the mean council housing is seen as a solution for the working poor. Councils already offer rent assistance, have council properties which are used to temporary house vulnerable people, building more of those won't help just look what happens when you have council flats in new build projects, drugs, anti social behaviour and damage to properties simply due to the high concentration of these individuals. So while having 20-30% social flats in a new build project might seem like a good idea the only thing that it causes is a huge backlash from the regular tenants due to this behaviour and nearly always they end up winning.
wishinghand 6y ago
When I visited a friend in England I accidentally stayed at a council estate that someone put up on AirBNB illegally. While it wasn't a slum, it definitely wasn't "just OK". I suspect the reason why that particular unit didn't look like a slum is because the owners were renting it out and doing their best to keep it nice. Not a single bit of that place was built well. Maybe it was cheap. Looked OK from the outside but inside it was like some background location for a movie that's about to experience an apocalypse.
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  What was specifically wrong? Structural issues or cosmetic. A private house from 1960 that hasn't been renovated since, unless carefully maintained will also look shit on the inside. Look at property that is auctioned in the UK, for example.
  - wishinghand 6y ago
    I got the impression that council estates are newer than that. However, the floors in the general areas (stairs, lobby, halls) were not cared for. The portal from the hall to the unit had a weird, rough tear in the floor right along the door jamb. I noticed once I crossed it that the unit was a half centimeter lower than the hallway. The fixtures (lights, plumbing, switches) were absolute penny quality. Very little hot water (which seemed dire since tea is so popular). The bathtub was on top of a cabinet, which I thought was really weird and unsafe. It didn't seem like an aftermarket thing- it looked like the tub was built like that. 0/10 would not use AirBNB again. Sleep on a friend's couch or floor, or shell out the money for a hotel. Or use a hostel if money is tight.
- paulcole 6y ago
  You chose to book a room using a service that’s known for a near complete lack of ethics. Oopsy!
  - wishinghand 6y ago
    It was a huge oopsy. I haven't booked through them again.
thephyber 6y ago
There are a number of "housing projects" in the US that turned into rampant crime nests. US politicians are largely wary of such projects right now.

TuringNYC 6y ago

After my father died, my mother rented out the lower floor of her home. I think your definition of desperate is unfair it it includes only tenants. Not all "landlords" are taking on the headache of renting out units because they are professional landlords -- many are similarly disparate, have mortgage payments, property tax, repairs, utilities, etc. I'd be in more favor of rent control if it would also freeze property taxes, electrician bills, utility costs. It is turtles all the day down.

thephyber 6y ago
Yeah, lots of the problems with rent control are related to it being an unfair disadvantage to some (usually not all) landlords and they have expenses as well. But again: the reason rent control is passed is because enough people with significant political leverage were hurting. We need to be able to show them a better alternative if we don't want the pain of rent control's (un?)intended consequences to linger.
- zhoujianfu 6y ago
  The alternative is allowing more housing development.
  - electricviolet 6y ago
    The real alternative is more housing development plus treating housing as a social good rather than an investment, but that's a long-term goal, it's not gonna happen overnight.
mywittyname 6y ago
Most places with rent control also have similar limits on property tax increases. In fact, I think most places have limits on property tax increases because property taxes are largely just some number pulled out of the ass of some bureaucrat. Utilities across the US also have regulated rates.